Countdown Poll - Flames captains

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

I still think that's looking at the team as a whole and extrapolating it to fall on him personally based on things we have no way of being privy to. It seems too convenient to look at that poorly constructed, aging team and conclude it was due in part to Iginla's leadership faltering in the last few years.

As I said in my earlier post you have quite a few sources trying to say something without coming out and saying it.

It's proof of nothing, for sure. But with a half dozen indicators all suggesting something you start to wonder if there's something to it.

Brent Sutter
Warrener
Hartley
Giordano
Francis
Byron

off the top of my head have all hinted at a click, two tiered system in the dressing room, different sets of rules, etc, etc.

if you have that happen you're dead in the water

if you are the captain of that mess you have a pretty sizable share of the responsibility to fix it.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Bingo

As I said in my earlier post you have quite a few sources trying to say something without coming out and saying it.

It's proof of nothing, for sure. But with a half dozen indicators all suggesting something you start to wonder if there's something to it.

Brent Sutter
Warrener
Hartley
Giordano
Francis
Byron

off the top of my head have all hinted at a click, two tiered system in the dressing room, different sets of rules, etc, etc.

if you have that happen you're dead in the water

if you are the captain of that mess you have a pretty sizable share of the responsibility to fix it.

In my opinion it all came down to the fact that was an aging, poorly constructed team. When that happens, you get a lot of finger pointing.

Saying that time taints Iginla's captaincy and then pointing to a very small window of Giordano's tenure where the entire team was on the upswing seems disingenuous to me.

I'll leave it at that.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

In my opinion it all came down to the fact that was an aging, poorly constructed team. When that happens, you get a lot of finger pointing.

Saying that time taints Iginla's captaincy and then pointing to a very small window of Giordano's tenure where the entire team was on the upswing seems disingenuous to me.

I'll leave it at that.

I agree with the second portion.

Lots of things happened in Calgary last year that will help make a captain look good, but Calgary is in a unique situation to see how the team responded under the same coach, and the difference was huge.

I don't know who to vote for in this poll to be honest. I think it's too early to give Giordano that kind of credit, but if he re-signs at a reasonable rate and Calgary continues to improve moving forward it might be hard to argue in a couple of years time.

Giordano's Flames already have playoff success. Do it a second time and I think it's a discussion of Gio vs. Lanny.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Lanny for me. One can argue that he had a stellar supporting cast, but from what I remember, he did quite a lot in the community to set the example, and helped to bring up the 'kids' (Nieuwendyk, Roberts, etc) up the right way.

Torn on the next few. Pepper was definitely a very good leader. I will argue that the Flames don't win the cup without Hunter. He joined the Flames when the Flames were not only beaten on the scoreboard by the Oilers, but also on every inch of that ice out there. Hunter came in and changed that enormously, and gave the Flames the swagger that they needed first before they were able to really compete with the Oilers.

Say what you will about Iginla, I don't think you can put Giordano above him at the moment. Giordano has so far been GREAT captain. However, I just don't he can compete (yet) with Iginla's '04 captaincy. It was so rare for any single captain to have that kind of an impact on a club. Sure, some may argue he tarnished his 'captaincy' with the whole Playfair mini-saga, or the 'country club atmosphere' that permeated this club. All valid reasons for why you choose not to vote for him. However, there are just such few moments in time when a captain did what Iginla did that year.

Iginla is next for me, followed by Hunter.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Giordano's Flames already have playoff success. Do it a second time and I think it's a discussion of Gio vs. Lanny.

I'd think he'd have to play a single playoff game before you can say anything about Giordano having any kind of playoff success.

[flambers]

My choice for sure would be Lanny (of course his other leaders Otto, Hunter, Peplinski and Risbourgh)

Iginla was a great player... not totally sure his Captain ability was at the same level.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

I'd think he'd have to play a single playoff game before you can say anything about Giordano having any kind of playoff success.

Besides the four games he played against the Wings in 06-07?

[foshizzle11]

I chose Iggy and I think Gio would be 2nd for me. Iggy did it all, won so much and was extremely close to winning a cup. Without him we don't compete like we did for a good chunk of the 00s.

Gio will lead this team to greatness, I just know he will. The future is exciting but at this moment in time Gio hasn't proven anything as the leader that Iggy did as a Flame. I think if we have this discussion in 10 years, things might be different.

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I went with Mark Giordano.

Can't think of another time when a single player was able to alter the culture of a hockey club and make a huge impact top to bottom.

Lanny was before your time, I presume?

[Hanna Sniper]

I don't see it even close, Lanny hands down and twice on game days

Anyone that see's it differently is equally right even though I don't agree personally.

[TX_Flame]

nm figured it out.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Besides the four games he played against the Wings in 06-07?

He captained the Flames for 4 playoff games in '07?

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I went with Iginla as he seemed to embody everything at least for a few seasons.

But I was really considering Conroy. IMO, he is the one that changed the loser expectations and took the team out of the dark ages. I wonder if Iginla would have become the captain he did without Conroy coming in and changing the attitude and expectations of the club back in the early 2000s.

Lanny is the nostalgic pick, but there were so many great leaders on the team in that era.

There were many great PLAYERS on the '89 team, not many great LEADERS. Note what happened to the Flames record in the playoffs after Lanny retired. Also, the team wasn't nearly as good when Lanny first came over in the trade that sent Bob MacMillan and Don Lever to Colorado. Lanny took a team that would just squeak into the playoffs (16 out of 21 made it at the time) and gave it instant credibility.

[Frank MetaMusil]

I just can't say its Gio. Not durable enough to help the team make a playoff push last season, and no on ice contribution to winning round 1 vs. Vancouver either.

He may be some amazing cheerleader and awesome locker room guy, but it's just not enough, IMO.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by TX_Flame

Lanny was before your time, I presume?

lol

[FireGilbert]

It's a little too soon to consider Gio the best captain ever so this is a very tough choice between McDonald and Iginla.

In the end I have decided to go with Lanny. It is kind of a New Coke/Classic Coke debate and in this case I am choosing Captain Classic.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I just can't say its Gio. Not durable enough to help the team make a playoff push last season, and no on ice contribution to winning round 1 vs. Vancouver either.

He may be some amazing cheerleader and awesome locker room guy, but it's just not enough, IMO.

Giordano was before your time, I presume?

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I just can't say its Gio. Not durable enough to help the team make a playoff push last season, and no on ice contribution to winning round 1 vs. Vancouver either.

He may be some amazing cheerleader and awesome locker room guy, but it's just not enough, IMO.

Agreed with all of that and he just simply hasn't been captain long enough. If he stays with the Flames as captain for another 4-5 seasons, stays healthy consistently and continues to be the leader we think he is, he could move up the list. But now, IMO, he's not in the running.

[CroFlames]

I honestly thought Iggy would win in a landslide in a poll like this.

Iggy basically did everything Lanny did, except win that last game of the season. And by that time, Lanny wasn't the go-to guy anymore. What's more, Iggy did it with less, and went on to accomplish amazing scoring feats afterwards. Not only that, Iggy was universally recognized as one of the toughest guys in the NHL in his heyday, regardless of captain status or not.

Gio has a long ways to go before he is can be considered a contender for that title between those two Flame Greats.

EDIT: Iggy's goal total would be even more impressive if he didn't sit through 2 long lockouts. I would say easily another 50 to 60 goals.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Giordano was before your time, I presume?

Giordano also didn't have to captain his way through the idiocy of the Butler/Bouwmeester top pairing.