Countdown Poll - Flames captains

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Bingo

always tough to venture into a debate with the Iginla crowd.

clearly a great player, and a monster captain at the start when he took over from Conroy and lead the Flames to the cup in 2004. Impossible to argue that.

He still is top 3 for me all time, but he loses that 1 spot because of his last 5 years. We will never know what is what behind the scenes but from former players, current players, odd quotes that seem to be saying something without saying something ... you get the impression that he let things get away on him. Clicks formed, high priced vets got to take the easy way out, and that follow me boys mentality waned.

Like I said none of that is concrete but there's quite a bit of smoke ... moves him from one in my mind.

At the end of the day you're making this judgement based on the team's success early in his captaincy, to it's demise and implosion late in his career. Doesn't seem to be a coincidence that he's a good captain when the team is strong but a poor one when it's full of aging veterans and never a No. 1 Centre.

[Bingo]

so question ...

put up another captain one tomorrow and vote them down, or call it a one off?

[troutman]

If my math is right, Lanny and Iggy played the same number of playoff games for the Flames (52).

I give the edge to Lanny for hoisting the Cup.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bingo

so question ...

put up another captain one tomorrow and vote them down, or call it a one off?

Maybe do like a few. top5 or 10? I think it will be interesting to see where a few of these guys land.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Bingo

so question ...

put up another captain one tomorrow and vote them down, or call it a one off?

I say do a vote down, but stop at 10, maybe 12. I don't think anyone will care about the guys left after that.

[CroFlames]

Do a top 10. It's summer.

[IgiTang]

1)Iginla
2)McDonald
3)Conroy
4) Risebrough
5)Fleury

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

At the end of the day you're making this judgement based on the team's success early in his captaincy, to it's demise and implosion late in his career. Doesn't seem to be a coincidence that he's a good captain when the team is strong but a poor one when it's full of aging veterans and never a No. 1 Centre.

No I'm not

I'm saying he went through a wall at the beginning of his career, and then from many reports started cutting corners in the last half.

Is that somewhat normal? Possibly.

But if I'm picking best captain in team history I'm not looking for the guy that let up.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Bingo

No I'm not

I'm saying he went through a wall at the beginning of his career, and then from many reports started cutting corners in the last half.

Is that somewhat normal? Possibly.

But if I'm picking best captain in team history I'm not looking for the guy that let up.

I think its another case of too early to tell with Gio. He hasn't done enough yet and that's where it ends for me. He may one day though we will see.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Psytic

This actually validates my point. Even with Gio leading they were still unmotivated. Gio's current success has as much to do with him as it does removing the old guard and getting a better group in the room.

That's hardly fair, since even as the coach's guy, Gio wouldn't feel right about gainsaying Iginla or Reg.

IMO what Sutter was saying was that Gio was the guy who led by example at that time.

[CroFlames]

I agree with most who say it's too early for Gio to be a contender for best of all time. Let's say Gio gets traded this summer and his captaincy is only 2 years. Do his 2 years of captaincy eclipse both Iggy's and Lanny's captaincy's? I think not. Iggy had an exceptional career. Lanny had a Cup. Gio has had a very good, maybe great career, but still much to do if he is going to be in the same boat as those two guys.

[Yrebmi]

1. Lanny for the cup win.
2. Iggy robbed in '04 but there was still game 7
3. Gio and high hopes he tops this list some day soon

[Komskies]

This is tough for me, because I've only really seen half of these guys play as the Captain. I've never seen/don't recall watching Brad Marsh, Phil Russell, Riser, Lanny, Peplinski, Tim Hunter, or McCrimmon.

[Jay Random]

I've had the good fortune to see them all. I voted for Lanny in first place, and all the reasons people have given, I think, are good ones. He was the face of the franchise, and kept the Saddledome filled through the worst economic times of the 80s (which was no easy feat). I remember wondering who was going to sell tickets for the Flames when he was gone.

The late Brad McCrimmon was a terrific defenceman and a good on-ice leader, but I rate him the worst of the captains. He was elected captain by the players during the 1989-90 season, and before the season was over he led the rebellion in the dressing room that forced the team to fire Terry Crisp. That team visibly and obviously quit on the coach, and did it in the middle of the first round of playoffs to defend the Stanley Cup. It was a disgraceful display of spite and poor sportsmanship. There's plenty of blame to go round (and some does belong to Crisp), but a big share has to go to the captain who orchestrated the revolt.

In other times and circumstances, I'm sure McCrimmon could have been a good captain. But the things he actually did while wearing the C, in my opinion, started the Flames' decline from the championship team to an also-ran. I believe it is no coincidence that that group of players never found a way to win a playoff round again.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The late Brad McCrimmon was a terrific defenceman and a good on-ice leader, but I rate him the worst of the captains. He was elected captain by the players during the 1989-90 season, and before the season was over he led the rebellion in the dressing room that forced the team to fire Terry Crisp. That team visibly and obviously quit on the coach, and did it in the middle of the first round of playoffs to defend the Stanley Cup. It was a disgraceful display of spite and poor sportsmanship. There's plenty of blame to go round (and some does belong to Crisp), but a big share has to go to the captain who orchestrated the revolt.

In other times and circumstances, I'm sure McCrimmon could have been a good captain. But the things he actually did while wearing the C, in my opinion, started the Flames' decline from the championship team to an also-ran. I believe it is no coincidence that that group of players never found a way to win a playoff round again.

Didn't know that story. Interesting

[Jay Random]

I read after the event that this was the reason why McCrimmon and Mullen were both traded for picks that summer. Apparently they were the ringleaders, and Fletcher felt that they needed to go.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you my exact source. I believe it was one of the Herald beat reporters, but if there is a searchable online archive of the Herald from 1990 and thereabouts, I don't have access to it. Sorry about that.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I've had the good fortune to see them all. I voted for Lanny in first place, and all the reasons people have given, I think, are good ones. He was the face of the franchise, and kept the Saddledome filled through the worst economic times of the 80s (which was no easy feat). I remember wondering who was going to sell tickets for the Flames when he was gone.

The late Brad McCrimmon was a terrific defenceman and a good on-ice leader, but I rate him the worst of the captains. He was elected captain by the players during the 1989-90 season, and before the season was over he led the rebellion in the dressing room that forced the team to fire Terry Crisp. That team visibly and obviously quit on the coach, and did it in the middle of the first round of playoffs to defend the Stanley Cup. It was a disgraceful display of spite and poor sportsmanship. There's plenty of blame to go round (and some does belong to Crisp), but a big share has to go to the captain who orchestrated the revolt.

In other times and circumstances, I'm sure McCrimmon could have been a good captain. But the things he actually did while wearing the C, in my opinion, started the Flames' decline from the championship team to an also-ran. I believe it is no coincidence that that group of players never found a way to win a playoff round again.

Interesting indeed. I was only 3 at the time so I had no clue about that.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Brent Sutter has said in his final year as coach, Giordano was his captain.

The discussion about the pressure on the '89 team is interesting. Isn't that what makes a leader 'great'; coming through when the pressure is at it's peak?

That always felt like it was missing from the Iginla-led teams, that ability to come through when the pressure was at its greatest. Stumbling down the stretch, stumbling in important games, coming out flat in the playoffs.

*drunk according to Olli Jokinen

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Bingo

No I'm not

I'm saying he went through a wall at the beginning of his career, and then from many reports started cutting corners in the last half.

Is that somewhat normal? Possibly.

But if I'm picking best captain in team history I'm not looking for the guy that let up.

I still think that's looking at the team as a whole and extrapolating it to fall on him personally based on things we have no way of being privy to. It seems too convenient to look at that poorly constructed, aging team and conclude it was due in part to Iginla's leadership faltering in the last few years.

Additionally, with just two years to judge Gio (as great as he's been) I think it's really disingenuous to look at two seasons where the team has been on a dramatic upswing as a whole and use that as a trump card over Iginla's whole tenure as a Flame.

In 06/07, Iggy would have looked like one of the greatest Captains ever.

Too small a sample size for Gio in my opinion.

[N-E-B]

Iginla. I'm 21, he's really the only Captian I can remember aside from Conroy and Giordano. I just can't vote for Lanny since I never had the chance to see him play live. He may never have won a cup, but he came as close as you can get in 2004 and that's pretty good in my books.