[Rumour] Giordano Extension. Kypreos: Starting point is $72 million over 8 years

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

There are several threads already discussing this.

The problem with assessing the cap, even one year forward, is that there are so many variables, and so many assumptions that have to be made.

Do we pencil Monahan in for $4M on a bridge contract? $6M longer term? $7M?

That's only one player, and whatever assumption you make has a pretty profound impact on the next 22 assumptions that you have to make.

For me, there is always turnover on the roster. As long as you avoid the really terrible contracts, there should be plenty of room. And really, what are the Flames' worst contracts? Raymond and Engelland? Both about $3M and only 2 years left. Big deal.

Hudler, Jones, Russell, Hiller and Ramo are all UFAs at the end of this season. That's $18.9M. That offers a fair amount of flexibility.

The following year, Raymond, Bollig, Wideman, Smid and Engelland are all UFAs. That's another $16.1M. That provides a lot more flexibility.

As long as a team has ELC players that can contribute, there shouldn't be a problem. And the Flames have an abundance of prospects that could be ready to step up over the next three years.

Personally, I have absolutely no concerns whatsoever about the cap at this point.

Yeah I don't think the sky is falling but as a fan of the team I find it interesting to discuss what your priorities would be. In your analysis, you freed up almost $19 million in cap space next year. How would you spend that money?

Re-sign a guy that was top 10 in league scoring this year?
Re-sign one of the more underrated d- men in the league?
Go with Ortio and Gilllies in net?
Sign Johnny and Monahan to long term deals?
Allocate some to Giordano's new deal?

Lots of moving parts but not sure you can do all of it.

My take is that Gio is the priority for the club and if they can sign him to something halfway reasonable they will (I would like to see 5/$35). After that I think they let Hudler play out his contract. They won't go with Ortio and Gillies and so I believe Flames will be in the trade market for a goalie over the next year. Russell could be part of a trade there.

[Enoch Root]

I didn't 'free up' $19M, I said they have flexibility.

I think that if Hudler wants to sign a team-friendly deal then great. But I would rather trade him at the deadline for a big return than sign him for something like 4 x $6M.

I think they should move Jones at the deadline, but that depends on whether any of the kids (i.e. Poirier) have shown that they can take over.

I think there is room to sign Russell and I believe they will.

Smid is a huge wildcard in the whole process - we really need to see what happens there before we make too many more assumptions on defense.

I am confident that Giordano will sign a deal that makes sense for both sides. I think your call on his salary is probably very close to what we see.

And I still think we see two-year 'bridge deals' for Monahan and Gaudreau

[herashak]

5yr/40m works for the club and is fair to gio

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by herashak

5yr/40m works for the club and is fair to gio

I think this will be the number

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by herashak

5yr/40m works for the club and is fair to gio

I think that is too much term or cap. If he wants $8M per then I would only do 3 years. Not a fan of 35+ players making that money

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think that is too much term or cap. If he wants $8M per then I would only do 3 years. Not a fan of 35+ players making that money

Then you don't get Gio

[Jason14h]

Its almost like some people forget there will be 29 other teams more then willing to offer Gio 5+ years after this season

[thymebalm]

I think it's probably 4/32 or 8/50.

You get term or you get cash, but you can't have both.

8/50 should be fine as long as the cap increases over the next 8 seasons. Lots of places to lose a ton of cap like goaltending, but I don't know.. maybe doesn't leave enough room for the kids new contracts...

I think Treliving is taking the same approach with Gio as he did with Glencross.

Glencross tried to jump the gun on an extension as an older player and it backfired after mediocre season. Any dip in Giordano's performance will result in him losing a ton of leverage come contract time.

[Street Pharmacist]

Treliving won't sign him to an 8 year deal regardless, as you simply don't see contracts extend to 40+ anymore. It'll be 5/6 years at the longest.

As for cash, he's a UFA and there'll be bidders so pony up or lose him. It's really that simple. Is he, or is he not a top 5 defenseman in the league? If he is, you can either pay him like one or watch him play elsewhere.

It'll be front loaded with signing bonuses the first two/three years and low tradable actual dollars at the end. With a full NMC.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Then you don't get Gio

Then we should move him. He has been elite for 2 years where he missed 18 and 21 games (plus playoffs). He will be 32 next year and locking him up at franchise money for 5 years is too risky in my opinion. If he wants $8M+ then I wouldn't go more than 3 years. If he would be agreeable to $7M then I would be okay at 4-5 years.

With a weakening Canadian dollar I am not so sure the cap will continue to increase substantially and Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett are more important to keep long term and they may all command $8+M on their extensions

[Finger Cookin]

When this thread started, my comfort level for term was limited to 5 years, and my comfort level for total $ was $38-40M. 5 weeks later, nothing's changed in that regard.

[Huntingwhale]

Captain/heart & soul or not, anything longer then 5 years/8mil cap his is a terrible contract.

Luckily in my heart, I still think that Treliving will use his wizardry and get Gio for around 6.5. I stand by that.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Its almost like some people forget there will be 29 other teams more then willing to offer Gio 5+ years after this season

I really doubt it. Look around the league. NHL teams are starting to recognize that huge contracts for players who are 32+ are toxic.

[Strange Brew]

I am confident a deal with Gio gets done although a little concerned the Flames are going to overpay. Of course they know his true value to the organization better than we do. I am slightly surprised nothing is done yet.

I do think there is a difference between him and Hudler. If you can't resign Hudler to a club friendly deal, I would keep him through the season. If the team is solidly in the playoff picture, you keep him at the deadline and be prepared to let him walk for nothing.

The idea of letting Gio go for nothing seems far worse to me. If you are at a stalemate, I would look to deal him.

[Galakanokis]

We all laugh at the Canucks for committing $7mil to 38 year Olds when they are still producing a a high level but want to jump at the chance to sign a guy to 38 years and beyond for 7/8? Can't have it both ways. Gio for 3 years great beyond that maybe Ok? How many elite level defencmen have you seen in the past 5 years that are past the age of 36? Chara has declined in a hurry. Boyle maybe.


It's a tough situation but you can't handicap your team moving forward because of your heart.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

We all laugh at the Canucks for committing $7mil to 38 year Olds when they are still producing a a high level but want to jump at the chance to sign a guy to 38 years and beyond for 7/8? Can't have it both ways. Gio for 3 years great beyond that maybe Ok? How many elite level defencmen have you seen in the past 5 years that are past the age of 36? Chara has declined in a hurry. Boyle maybe.

Is there much laughing at the Canucks for that particular reason? In any case, the Sedins signed their extensions (that wouldn't start until they were 34 year olds) during their worse seasons in a long time so that made it look worse.

As for defenseman over 36. Zidlicky, Markov, Streit, Rafalski, Blake, Timonen, Chara, Gonchar and of course Lidstrom have all played well over 36. Salo was 40 playing 20 minutes a night for Tampa the season prior. Willie Mitchell was playing 22 minutes a night during the playoffs for a team that won the Stanley Cup as a 37 year old that same year. Streit was the number one defenseman for the Flyers with 52 points and 22 minutes of ice-time this past season, he's 37.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Is there much laughing at the Canucks for that particular reason? In any case, the Sedins signed their extensions (that wouldn't start until they were 34 year olds) during their worse seasons in a long time so that made it look worse.

As for defenseman over 36. Zidlicky, Markov, Streit, Rafalski, Blake, Timonen, Chara, Gonchar and of course Lidstrom have all played well over 36. Salo was 40 playing 20 minutes a night for Tampa the season prior. Willie Mitchell was playing 22 minutes a night during the playoffs for a team that won the Stanley Cup as a 37 year old that same year. Streit was the number one defenseman for the Flyers with 52 points and 22 minutes of ice-time this past season, he's 37.

Outside of Lindstrom and Chara there rest are average at best and in no way making elite money or should be which it is rumored that Giordano wants. Have most of those guys even played this decade? And if we are relying on a 37/38 year old defenseman to be our number one well, we might as well be the Flyers. It's the Flyers, Engelland could be a 1 or 2 on that team.

Chara looks almost done and didn't Lindstrom sign a series of one year deals at the end of his career? If Giordano wants that than fine. Tying up term and money past 38 makes for a bad reciepe. It's a young man's game now and paying your 23-28 year olds is more important than your 36-38 year olds.

[Street Pharmacist]

Playing devil's advocate, but it's easy to ask for current older elite defenseman playing well, but there aren't many error defensemen period.

How many elite defensemen were not elite at 37?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

Outside of Lindstrom and Chara there rest are average at best and in no way making elite money or should be which it is rumored that Giordano wants. Have most of those guys even played this decade?

All of them...

The 36 year old Markov just played 25 minutes a night and put up 50 points with the Canadiens.

Giordano isn't going to get what he wants. But 10M+ has been the salary for top tier UFA prime years for awhile now. Kane, Toews and Subban might have the first actual cap-hits indicating that, but Weber, Suter, Parise and Lundqvist, to name a few, have contracts at the very least reflecting that.

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Captain/heart & soul or not, anything longer then 5 years/8mil cap his is a terrible contract.

Luckily in my heart, I still think that Treliving will use his wizardry and get Gio for around 6.5. I stand by that.

If you believe Giordano to be a top tier player and can be for say the next 3 or 4 years after this one (36 seems reasonable barring injuries), he would be worth in the ballpark of 40M over the first 4 years alone. Maybe remove a bit for giving him a NTC and not being as highly touted as those other guys. But this is a league where Kesler just signed 7M a year until he's 37 with a NMC. If Treliving is able to get Giordano for less he needs to be upgraded to God status.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

With a weakening Canadian dollar I am not so sure the cap will continue to increase substantially and Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett are more important to keep long term and they may all command $8+M on their extensions

I'd be shocked if Monahan and Gaudreau made that much on their first post ELC deal. I think it'll be closer to $6.5M each with max term.