[News] Patrick Kane being investigated for rape. UPD: DA announces no charges

[DJones]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

He was at least charged tho, correct?

Kane has not been charged. Therefore i don't understand how the league can suspend someone do to a neither confirmed or denied ongoing investigation.

You can't argue that his wife got beat up. Clear evidence that everyone can see for themselves. The falling down the stairs excuse was just a joke as well.

That is completely different to what will most likely be a he said she said trial. Most likely she blacked out and he took advantage of her. Big Grey area in todays world.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by MattyC

The point I was trying to make is that someone is far more likely to go through all this if it is against someone of significant fame/wealth because the payoff may actually be worth it. More often than not, these types of cases are settled out of court for undisclosed amounts, and the public never finds out the truth and so we come to our own conclusions based on the released evidence.

I never said that the amount of actual assaults is outweighed by false accusations, far from it. I said that, in the case of people of fame/wealth, they are far more likely to be falsely accused than the average person (note* this again, does not mean that there are more false accusations than real ones, just that there are likely more false accusations against celebs than regular people). So you can't use the amount of false accusations vs real assaults from the general public as a framework for how often false accusations vs real assaults would happen for celebrities. Those numbers will not be the same.

That doesnt at all imply that the amount of actual assault is less than false ones, just that the amount of false accusations against celebrities will outweigh false accusations of normal joe blow, exactly because of what you mentioned. The payoff isn't worth it to falsely accuse someone if they have nothing to offer in settlement, and an average person would likely be more concerned with going through a trial to prove their innocence rather then just pay some money to make it go away, regardless of what the truth is.

Exactly. People do way crazier things for money. Sleeping with a celebrity and getting a half million dollar cheque a month later doesn't really strike me as putting yourself through some terrible ordeal. All the focus is on the celeb not the victim.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Sure I'd agree. I don't see Kane as some monster who enjoys raping women though.

Why not? These people exist everywhere. Beloved family friendly comedians, high-level athletes, movie stars etc.. have all been accused and/or convicted of such things. Why, in your mind, is Kane exempt from possibly committing this type of behaviour?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

He was at least charged tho, correct?

Kane has not been charged. Therefore i don't understand how the league can suspend someone do to a neither confirmed or denied ongoing investigation.

Not yet, but the arguments of suspending Kane presuppose that the investigation will result in charges.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by MattyC

No, his comment was that, sometimes, rape could just be about sex. Meaning, a guy was lead to believe he was going to have sex and then the lady decided she didn't want to, and so the guy decides to force himself on her because he wants sex. Thus, that situation is about sex more than it is about having control or power over someone.

I disagree. If your hypothetical guy just wanted to ejaculate, he would masturbate like the rest of us.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MattyC

The point I was trying to make is that someone is far more likely to go through all this if it is against someone of significant fame/wealth because the payoff may actually be worth it. More often than not, these types of cases are settled out of court for undisclosed amounts, and the public never finds out the truth and so we come to our own conclusions based on the released evidence.

I never said that the amount of actual assaults is outweighed by false accusations, far from it. I said that, in the case of people of fame/wealth, they are far more likely to be falsely accused than the average person (note* this again, does not mean that there are more false accusations than real ones, just that there are likely more false accusations against celebs than regular people). So you can't use the amount of false accusations vs real assaults from the general public as a framework for how often false accusations vs real assaults would happen for celebrities. Those numbers will not be the same.

That doesnt at all imply that the amount of actual assault is less than false ones, just that the amount of false accusations against celebrities will outweigh false accusations of normal joe blow, exactly because of what you mentioned. The payoff isn't worth it to falsely accuse someone if they have nothing to offer in settlement, and an average person would likely be more concerned with going through a trial to prove their innocence rather then just pay some money to make it go away, regardless of what the truth is.

There is actually no evidence or studies to support what you are suggesting. The cases that are settled are no more indicative of false accusations that of true ones in which the victim decides not to put herself through the process (look at what happened with Tyson's accuser).

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I disagree. If your hypothetical guy just wanted to ejaculate, he would masturbate like the rest of us.

I think even the most serial of masturbaters would agree that it is not the same.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Why not? These people exist everywhere. Beloved family friendly comedians, high-level athletes, movie stars etc.. have all been accused and/or convicted of such things. Why, in your mind, is Kane exempt from possibly committing this type of behaviour?

I suppose just looking at who has more to gain and who has more to lose. Sure there are probably examples of every possible outcome but until I see more evidence that's my gut feeling.

[thefoss1957]

I have read where the term "statutory" rape may be the issue, and others that say that this happened in a Bar...If this crap all isn't just rumor and innuendo, I think most guys in North America would make an assumption that a girl met IN A BAR, would certainly be "legal age of consent"...but, again, no charges, just allegations and rumors.

[Jables16]

Originally Posted by DJones

You can't argue that his wife got beat up. Clear evidence that everyone can see for themselves. The falling down the stairs excuse was just a joke as well.

That is completely different to what will most likely be a he said she said trial. Most likely she blacked out and he took advantage of her. Big Grey area in todays world.

No, it really, really isn't.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by thefoss1957

I have read where the term "statutory" rape may be the issue, and others that say that this happened in a Bar...If this crap all isn't just rumor and innuendo, I think most guys in North America would make an assumption that a girl met IN A BAR, would certainly be "legal age of consent"...but, again, no charges, just allegations and rumors.

Source?

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by Jables16

No, it really, really isn't.

It isn't a grey area, but proving it beyond a reasonable doubt is incredibly difficult.

[thefoss1957]

Originally Posted by jar_e

Source?

Just rumors flying around Chicago Fan sites...

however...to quote Tim Graham, a Buffalo reporter being interviewed on the "Kap and Haugh" radio show: "at this point it doesn't look good for Kane"...

[Coach]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

There is actually no evidence or studies to support what you are suggesting. The cases that are settled are no more indicative of false accusations that of true ones in which the victim decides not to put herself through the process (look at what happened with Tyson's accuser).

OK. Firstly, my post doesn't claim that any of this is actually the case. It is 100% speculation based on my own logic.

I never said that out of court settlements are any indication that the accusations are false. I said that they more frequently are settled this way when it involves people of fame/money because it is less of a headache for them to pay someone to go away than to go through a trial to prove their innocence REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE TRUTH IS (that's a direct quote from the post you quoted).

Because of this scenario (ie, that a wealthy person is more likely to settle than to go through a trial exposing their personal lives) that IT IS LIKELY the amount of false accusations among celebs/wealthy people is higher than those among normal people. even if it's 3 out of 1000 vs 1 out of 1000, that is still higher.

The point is that you can't take data from the entire population on real vs fake assaults and apply it to publicly exposed people of wealth. The amount of people in that community pre-disposed to rape someone is likely the same as the general population, but the likelyhood of them being falsely accused of rape is IMO likely to be higher than the general population, because the potential payoffs for the accuser are much higher.

As far as I'm concerned, an out of court settlement looks worse on the accused than the accuser. Personally, regardless of how rich or famous I was, I would be doing all I could to prove my innocence.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by thefoss1957

Just rumors flying around Chicago Fan sites...

however...to quote Tim Graham, a Buffalo reporter being interviewed on the "Kap and Haugh" radio show: "at this point it doesn't look good for Kane"...

Well of course not, hes being accused of rape.

A generally unpleasant position for anyone.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Jables16

No, it really, really isn't.

You've never had sex with a girl that may be black out? I've been on the otherside of that problem a few times.

Not proud of it and it's embarrassing to not remember but to assert that anything criminal happened is preposterous. Nowadays if a girl regrets it the day after even though she made a conscious choice or texted her friend "I'm hooking up with Patrick Kane!!" it can still be considered rape.

You don't think there's any grey in that?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I listen to that channel a lot. Only way to get my hockey fix in the car down here. Who said that? Some of those guys don't strike me as the sharpest tools..

Jake Hahn.

Again, I want to point out that nothing had been said about rape yet so it wasn't like he was making the comment during the discussion of a serious allegation or anything.

It's just.....

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Not to come back to it, but rape isn't about sex (which I agree, Kane likely would have no trouble finding).

It is about power.

Is rape really just about power though? I think to some that would definitely be the case but not sure you can really make a blanket statement like that. It would be like saying all serial killers kill for blank reason. I think sexual desire could easily play a major part of it for some.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Exactly. People do way crazier things for money. Sleeping with a celebrity and getting a half million dollar cheque a month later doesn't really strike me as putting yourself through some terrible ordeal. All the focus is on the celeb not the victim.

This has literally never happened. You clearly know nothing about either criminal or civil process. And I'd sugegst to you that any celebtrity that paid a half million to someone in that time frame did it to cover up a crime.

You can see right from this response why victims are reluctant to even report rapes. Already there are wild assumptions about motivation.

[sureLoss]

per the Buffalo news, another law enforcement agency has been asked to assist in the investigation and a prosecutor has been assigned to the case.