[News] Patrick Kane being investigated for rape. UPD: DA announces no charges

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by polak

The movie made it look like it's decently easy to fake all of that if you had sex with the person you plan on accusing.

I wasn't really being serious though. I know it's just a movie. I'm assuming/hoping forensics could do a good job verifying self inflicted wounds.

I guess I didn't understand it because I haven't seen the movie.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Everything I read stated she went to a hospital and tests using a rape kit were performed. Do we know for certain that this means she went there first, and police then became involved, or is that an assumption based on that wording?

Also, who the hell cares what she did first?

I don't know what to make of this; we have basically no facts whatsoever to base any opinion on. But some of the attempts to ascribe motive to even those sketchy details (which aren't even verified) is insane.

Ridiculous. He hasn't even been charged.

The NHL cares about PR, not about due process.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

This should not even be on our radar right now. No charges laid? No official statements by police? Nothing to see here (yet). I absolutely hate that this is even being discussed without any credible information.

If he did this abhorrent act then he should rot in jail for all eternity. If he didn't do this then she should. That being said none of this should be public knowledge until the judicial system presses full charges. I hate that the TMZ generation has gotten to the point where anything and everything is printed and posted without any substantial evidence either way. It's invasive and wrong IMO.

These are my thoughts, not yours. I'm Lanny'sDaman.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

From what I've seen its admissible in civil cases if there's consent from both sides to allow it, but its not admissible in criminal

Just the first example that I found:

[25] I rule that this voir dire, dealing with whether polygraph evidence should be received, shall be abandoned. I find that the decision in The Queen v. Béland and Phillips, supra, is binding in civil as well as criminal matters and it is also binding in child welfare proceedings. I am grateful to all counsel for the very thorough manner in which they prepared for this hearing.

Catholic Children’s Aid Society of Metropolitan Toronto v. J.S., 1988 CanLII 5596 (ON CJ)

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I guess I didn't understand it because I haven't seen the movie.

And you call yourself a Ben Affleck fanboy!

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

And you call yourself a Ben Affleck fanboy!

He's gonna suck as batman

All gravelly voiced and being all batmanny

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't think that really matters, the NHL is very sensitive now as are other sports when it comes to the investigation of serious legal issues.

Mike Richards was under investigation and he was terminated, now I get that this was a fortunate turn of events for the Kings who wanted to buy him out anyways. But how long do you think it will take the media to connect the dots and say, Richards was terminated while under investigation for a controlled substance based crime, Kane is under investigation for rape so if the NHL sits on their hands, they will get shredded.

That is a very dangerous precedent to set. So in the eyes of the league Kane is Guilty until proven innocent? Wonderful world we live in.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Why is it hard to believe? All sorts of men commit rape. Your career choice, wealth, and other factors don't preclude someone from that.
Why is it more plausible that the girl lied?
I'm not saying he did it. I hope he didn't. But I don't understand any of the above.

Because being a pro athelete making over 10 million a year means you have zero trouble finding girls to sleep with. They are probably lining up. Which would lead me to believe he doesn't need to rape women. Unless you think he's just that sick of a human that he enjoys raping women. Seeing that hes been in the league for like 8 years now did he just turn into a rapist all of a sudden? I mean it's possible but to me it doesn't really make sense. Clear enough?

Why is it more plausible the girl lied? Because she has a lot to gain potentially and Kane has a lot to lose potentially. He's a celebrity with a lot of money. She can get a quick payment to drop the charge. She doesn't have to prove much since any celebrity in this situation would want this to go away quick as possible. He could potentially lose a career, 100+ million, his reputation, his families. Is that still so hard to fathom for you?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Because being a pro athelete making over 10 million a year means you have zero trouble finding girls to sleep with. They are probably lining up. Which would lead me to believe he doesn't need to rape women. Unless you think he's just that sick of a human that he enjoys raping women. Seeing that hes been in the league for like 8 years now did he just turn into a rapist all of a sudden? I mean it's possible but to me it doesn't really make sense. Clear enough?

Why is it more plausible the girl lied? Because she has a lot to gain potentially and Kane has a lot to lose potentially. He's a celebrity with a lot of money. She can get a quick payment to drop the charge. She doesn't have to prove much since any celebrity in this situation would want this to go away quick as possible. He could potentially lose a career, 100+ million, his reputation, his families. Is that still so hard to fathom for you?

Not to come back to it, but rape isn't about sex (which I agree, Kane likely would have no trouble finding).

It is about power.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Because being a pro athelete making over 10 million a year means you have zero trouble finding girls to sleep with. They are probably lining up. Which would lead me to believe he doesn't need to rape women. Unless you think he's just that sick of a human that he enjoys raping women. Seeing that hes been in the league for like 8 years now did he just turn into a rapist all of a sudden? I mean it's possible but to me it doesn't really make sense. Clear enough?

Why is it more plausible the girl lied? Because she has a lot to gain potentially and Kane has a lot to lose potentially. He's a celebrity with a lot of money. She can get a quick payment to drop the charge. She doesn't have to prove much since any celebrity in this situation would want this to go away quick as possible. He could potentially lose a career, 100+ million, his reputation, his families. Is that still so hard to fathom for you?

What a silly comment. No one needs to rape women.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I suspect you hear about it less. Look at Bill Cosby and how he was able to cover it all up for decades.

False accusations of rape are extremely rare. No matter who the accused is. I don't buy the "celebrity target" argument. I doubt a woman is going to want to put herself through that process without it actually happening, possible civil lawsuit or not. A lawsuit wouldn't get a settlement for years, and a criminal case doesn't get her anything by way of monetary value.

I would bet real money that actual assaults which are covered up far outnumber false accusations.

The point I was trying to make is that someone is far more likely to go through all this if it is against someone of significant fame/wealth because the payoff may actually be worth it. More often than not, these types of cases are settled out of court for undisclosed amounts, and the public never finds out the truth and so we come to our own conclusions based on the released evidence.

I never said that the amount of actual assaults is outweighed by false accusations, far from it. I said that, in the case of people of fame/wealth, they are far more likely to be falsely accused than the average person (note* this again, does not mean that there are more false accusations than real ones, just that there are likely more false accusations against celebs than regular people). So you can't use the amount of false accusations vs real assaults from the general public as a framework for how often false accusations vs real assaults would happen for celebrities. Those numbers will not be the same.

That doesnt at all imply that the amount of actual assault is less than false ones, just that the amount of false accusations against celebrities will outweigh false accusations of normal joe blow, exactly because of what you mentioned. The payoff isn't worth it to falsely accuse someone if they have nothing to offer in settlement, and an average person would likely be more concerned with going through a trial to prove their innocence rather then just pay some money to make it go away, regardless of what the truth is.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

That is a very dangerous precedent to set. So in the eyes of the league Kane is Guilty until proven innocent? Wonderful world we live in.

Slava Voynov was suspended the entire year without conviction.

The precedent is already there.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Also, who the hell cares what she did first?

There was suggestion that it added some credibility that she went to the hospital first. Was simply asking for clarification...

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Slava Voynov was suspended the entire year without conviction.

The precedent is already there.

He was at least charged tho, correct?

Kane has not been charged. Therefore i don't understand how the league can suspend someone do to a neither confirmed or denied ongoing investigation.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Not to come back to it, but rape isn't about sex (which I agree, Kane likely would have no trouble finding).

It is about power.

Sure I'd agree. I don't see Kane as some monster who enjoys raping women though.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

That is a very dangerous precedent to set. So in the eyes of the league Kane is Guilty until proven innocent? Wonderful world we live in.

The NHL is not a representation of society, its a business, and its heavily slanted towards how it handles the publics view of itself and its players.

Innocent til proven guilty, or guilty til proven innocent means absolutely nothing in this case.

Kane's name hit the news and its in connection with an investigation into a rape. Just like Voynov the NHL is going to move to protect itself, create distance between itself and the investigation and look public ally like they'er doing the right thing.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Maybe I misunderstood your comment but your comment was that if a man raped a woman after she decided she didn't want to go through with it, that it was sex. My definition of sex doesn't include sexual assault.

No, his comment was that, sometimes, rape could just be about sex. Meaning, a guy was lead to believe he was going to have sex and then the lady decided she didn't want to, and so the guy decides to force himself on her because he wants sex. Thus, that situation is about sex more than it is about having control or power over someone.

How you got that he equated having consensual sex with forcing yourself on someone after thinking you were going to get laid, I don't really know.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Sure I'd agree. I don't see Kane as some monster who enjoys raping women though.

That's kind of a weird statement to make without knowing someone personally, isn't it? Even then, many of history's greatest monsters have walked among others undetected.

Not everyone who commits heinous crimes is a creepy loner.

(I am not saying Kane is guilty, who the hell knows at this point, but rather just that his perceived outward demeanor does not disqualify him from committing sexual assault)

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Sure I'd agree. I don't see Kane as some monster who enjoys raping women though.

What are the signals for identifying monsters who enjoy raping women?

[Itse]

Does Bill Cosby have trouble hooking up? Would be very surprising, considering how popular, wealthy and powerful he is.

Heck, reading the stories of the victims, it's pretty clear that many of the victims probably were quite ready to sleep with Cosby to further their careers. (It is a rather common practice in show business after all.) But Cosby would rather drug at least some of those women unconscious and rape them. Because he's just a really terrible person and that is apparently his idea of fun. And very few people are unique cases. Even the bad ones.

Also, Cosby's comments have made it pretty clear that he probably doesn't see what he's been doing as "actual rape".

I can also totally believe that a strong, self-assured guy who starts pushing himself on someone could end up raping someone and not realize that's what he's doing. Because he doesn't want to read those signals, because maybe she didn't actually mouth out the word "no", because what ever.

Which wouldn't make it okay, that's still rape.
(Check for consent people, don't just assume things.)

Let's remember that some people also think it's okay to just punch people of they mouth off to you, and are seriously totally surprised when the punched person can actually press charges. I'm saying that just as an example of the fact that there's a lot of people in the word that have a lot of trouble telling right from wrong.

Rich athletes might have a lot of reasons to avoid rape charges, and they might try to be good people. But neither protects you from being an idiot who doesn't really get what rape is. And there's a lot of people in the world who don't really seem to get what rape is.

For the record, I'm making no assumptions on what happened in this case.

And I don't envy the investigators of this case, at all.