Federal Election Called for Oct 19, 2015

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

A more recent example is the US's meat labeling law, which the WTO ruled was illegal under international trade laws. The Americans dragged it out well past that ruling - right up until Canada filed for permission to hit American producers with billions in tariffs.

Exactly. There's ample evidence that regardless of what's fair or legal the US will cheat when it's in their interest. The idea that Harper was too pushy or didn't comply with their conditions are rubbish. They'll keep moving the goal posts far enough for you to become uncompetitive or drag it out long enough to satisfy their self interests. Obama has been a terrible President when it comes to Canada. I know people here love the idealized version of him, but he's been awful for our interests.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Exactly. There's ample evidence that regardless of what's fair or legal the US will cheat when it's in their interest. The idea that Harper was too pushy or didn't comply with their conditions are rubbish. They'll keep moving the goal posts far enough for you to become uncompetitive or drag it out long enough to satisfy their self interests. Obama has been a terrible President when it comes to Canada. I know people here love the idealized version of him, but he's been awful for our interests.

But that's business in government.

Canada has to find a way to strengthen its negotiating position with the American's when it comes to trade, whether that's imposing tariffs on American products or imposing inspection cost increases on purely built outside of Canada products from the States, we've gone to long without leverage and been kicked in the sack for that.

There is a lot of disharmony between Canada and the White House right now, while the relationship is still very strong between Canada and the U.S. I believe that Canada has been going so hard in terms of trade initiatives outside of the U.S. markets because America has way to much leverage over Canada.

I also think that Harper felt personally insulted when Obama rebuked him for his stance when Harper told Putin to get out of the Ukraine basically.

I don't think that either leader is sending the other Christmas Cards and exchanging phone calls in July.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Nice try. Coal power is a huge lobby in the U.S. Sure coal is on the down and outs, largely because not besides policy.

Anyway, the EPA stated in their final regulations that coal will decline, but that the regulations will speed it up and decline it by more than it otherwise would.

There's not diminishing the political capital that has gone into those regs. Something that the Harper Government can no where compete.

That is so hilariously not true.

Coal generation is on the outs entirely because of the economics to generate. It has nothing to do with environmental policy. If coal suddenly became a cheaper alternative I guarantee it would shift back regardless of policy.

I work in the supply chain from coal extraction to power generation with some of the biggest companies in the industry. There is a reason companies like Peabody Energy stock is down over 90% in 48 months, and it sure isn't environmental policy. It's the cost of gas.

Using the US environmental legislation on coal generation to champion your argument is probably not the best idea here. It has more holes than a Chinese brothel.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Baseless. The "world" or other wealthy countries (including China) have done much more than Harper except for Australia. And the U.S. just regulated its carbon emissions from coal plants two days ago so... your point doesn't stand?

Normally I'd engage in further debate as I think it promotes understanding. But you promote China-- with a worse environmental record than any other country, perhaps the US notwithstanding, as doing "more". There's nothing to debate here, just a lot to disagree upon.

[killer_carlson]

Suggesting China has done more for the environment than Harper is just plain dumb.

It shows tremendous bias and colours any other comment about the government.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

That's not the cynical view, that's the crackpot conspiracy play-the-victim view. Laughable that some people who pretend to be in-the-know willingly believe this. The reason KXL has been stalled is because of mainly environmental activism in the U.S. in response to lack of Canadian action to regulate GHGs. Not some geopolitical chess game spawned up in Viviane Krause's basement.

Its interesting that you pretend to know that the US government hasn't considered that giving Canadian oil access to the Gulf Coast is ultimately against their interests. From the amount of conviction in your post I'd be led to think you sit in the oval office day-to-day reading cabinet briefings.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Normally I'd engage in further debate as I think it promotes understanding. But you promote China-- with a worse environmental record than any other country, perhaps the US notwithstanding, as doing "more". There's nothing to debate here, just a lot to disagree upon.

Come on now, China agreed to cap their emissions by 2030, it's not like they will grow exponentially by then. Clearly that's a bigger sacrifice than anything Canada has committed to.

[starseed]

Canada has no leg to stand on when criticizing China's environmental record. We pump out 2-3 times per capita what they pump out. Canada has been a luddite under the Harper government when it comes to making sacrifices for the good of the planet.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by starseed

Canada has no leg to stand on when criticizing China's environmental record. We pump out 2-3 times per capita what they pump out. Canada has been a luddite under the Harper government when it comes to making sacrifices for the good of the planet.

35M people should cut hard so 1.4 billion other can fill the void left with even more CO2? The only way there is a meaningful impact is if everyone contributes, otherwise you're just wasting your time. We won't make a difference in absolute terms.

[killer_carlson]

First debate is tonight. As much as I think the debate will produce something substantive, I suspect that the spin doctors have already written their takeaways. My predictions:


1) Mere seconds after the debate the NDP's and Conservative's paid tweeters er, I mean party faithful dump all over the internet by hitting "send" or "submit" with pre-written tweets and comments about how terrible Trudeau performed.
2) Trudeau pulls a Raj Sherman and goes out of his way to work a large number of cliches into his responses.
3) CBC and the Globe and Mail capture and report said Trudeau cliches as his making stellar points and standing his ground, regardless of proper context.
4) Mulclair tries to engage Harper substantively, with Harper avoiding the fight, for now.
5) Harper hammers Elizabeth May during an exchange.
6) Elizabeth May plays nice with the NDP and talks coalition

[Jacks]

China working hard on the environment.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

First debate is tonight. As much as I think the debate will produce something substantive, I suspect that the spin doctors have already written their takeaways. My predictions:


1) Mere seconds after the debate the NDP's and Conservative's paid tweeters er, I mean party faithful dump all over the internet by hitting "send" or "submit" with pre-written tweets and comments about how terrible Trudeau performed.
2) Trudeau pulls a Raj Sherman and goes out of his way to work a large number of cliches into his responses.
3) CBC and the Globe and Mail capture and report said Trudeau cliches as his making stellar points and standing his ground, regardless of proper context.
4) Mulclair tries to engage Harper substantively, with Harper avoiding the fight, for now.
5) Harper hammers Elizabeth May during an exchange.
6) Elizabeth May plays nice with the NDP and talks coalition

I would expect that Mulcair is going to use this opportunity to go after Trudeau, make him look terrible and to start leaching votes and seats away from the Liberals.

I would expect that Harper will go hard after Trudeau because he's a big meany, he'll also want to go after the die in the woods Liberals that don't want to see Mulcair as Prime Minister and will hold their noses and vote Conservative.

Trudeau will have to rise way above what he's done so far and stop what is essential the bleeding, he'll have to be prepared, and be able to defend himself.

The main event bro down between Harper and Mulcair won't materialize this week, this will be about establishing this election as a two party race. I would expect that Harper will probe Mulcair a bit to see if he can make angry Tom come out.

I have no clue why May is even invited into these debates, she has in the previous lap dogged to the NDP, been shrill and pretty much worthless, she's not someone that's even in the running to be the leader of this country, and thus pretty much a useless distraction.

The first leader that stands up grabs her chair and pushes her off screen during one of her rants gets my vote.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by starseed

Canada has no leg to stand on when criticizing China's environmental record. We pump out 2-3 times per capita what they pump out. Canada has been a luddite under the Harper government when it comes to making sacrifices for the good of the planet.

The environment does not exist in a per capita basis. How about you post what each country pumps out in total?

Or how about you post it relative to land area of each country?

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

First debate is tonight. As much as I think the debate will produce something substantive, I suspect that the spin doctors have already written their takeaways. My predictions:


1) Mere seconds after the debate the NDP's and Conservative's paid tweeters er, I mean party faithful dump all over the internet by hitting "send" or "submit" with pre-written tweets and comments about how terrible Trudeau performed.
2) Trudeau pulls a Raj Sherman and goes out of his way to work a large number of cliches into his responses.
3) CBC and the Globe and Mail capture and report said Trudeau cliches as his making stellar points and standing his ground, regardless of proper context.
4) Mulclair tries to engage Harper substantively, with Harper avoiding the fight, for now.
5) Harper hammers Elizabeth May during an exchange.
6) Elizabeth May plays nice with the NDP and talks coalition

All very possible. I do think there's a lot of potential for Trudeau to 'exceed expectations', simply because Conservatives have been lowering expectations for him for months now. He's definitely got the most to gain tonight, because he can wipe out all that 'just not ready' rhetoric by actually looking ready.

I think Harper goes on the offensive a lot, because he doesn't want to run on his own record as much as he wants to run on the spectre of a left-wing government. He'll probably get a number of attacks that he doesn't have good responses to except shifting the focus. He probably targets Trudeau more than Mulclair. But he needs to be careful, because a lot of the Conservative attacks on Trudeau thus far have been more about style than substance. Harper needs to keep his focus on substantial Liberal policies.

Mulclair probably has the highest expectations, because he's got a reputation as an excellent parliamentary debater, and a lot of Canadians haven't actually seen that from him. I could see him in a position where he comes off as too cautious tonight, trying to look prime-ministerial. Which is a risky strategy. If Trudeau is performing well, Mulclair risks losing some ground to Trudeau. But if Harper is beating down Trudeau, then Mulclair not getting involved benefits the Conservatives. He needs to land at least a few heavy blows.

[killer_carlson]

I think you are correct in that it is very possible that Trudeau will exceed expectations because of how much the Conservatives have been mouthing off over how bad Trudeau is. He might just have to speak in complete sentences to come out better than the Conservatives are suggesting he will.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I have to agree with CCrunch again; I don't think May should be participating in these debates any more than the leader of the Communist Party or the Christian Coalition or whatever it's called. Takes air time away from the others, and there's little time as it is for them to explain why people should vote for them. That said I kind of doubt that the debate will be useful in that respect anyway.

[octothorp]

Also, I can't help thinking that Trudeau doing a boxing-ring photo-op this morning is an attempt to goad Harper into attacking him on his style during the debate. See if Harper falls for it and if Trudeau has a powerful counterpunch waiting.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I have to agree with CCrunch again; I don't think May should be participating in these debates any more than the leader of the Communist Party or the Christian Coalition or whatever it's called. Takes air time away from the others, and there's little time as it is for them to explain why people should vote for them. That said I kind of doubt that the debate will be useful in that respect anyway.

Huh,

Wasn't aware the communist party or the christian coalition had sitting MPs in Parliament.

[John Doe]

The Conservatives know that Trudeau will perform better than expected tonight and this is their way of tempering that. "Of course he performed better than expected. He wore pants." (Note to Jacks: I am not quoting anyone here. I am just giving an example of what I think the Conservatives will say).

That said, the boxing ring thing this morning was a big mistake by Trudeau. It nurtures the style over substance narrative. It reminds me of Stockwell Day's "seadoo" episode.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The environment does not exist in a per capita basis. How about you post what each country pumps out in total?

Or how about you post it relative to land area of each country?