[Trade] Canucks acquire B. Sutter + 3rd for Bonino, Clendening, + 2nd. UPD: Sutter signed.

[devo22]

Awful contract, as expected. Remember when Jim Benning was a candidate to be the Flames GM?

BULLET. DODGED.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Wow. $4.3AAV/5 years for a third line centre. Our third line centre is making $3.5 and scores about 7 fewer points per season on average.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

Wow. $4.3AAV/5 years for a third line centre. Our third line centre is making $3.5 and scores about 7 fewer points per season on average.

Only because of injuries.

Career:

Backlund: 0.42PPG
Sutter....: 0.37PPG

Last 3 seasons:

Backlund: 0.51PPG
Sutter....: 0.37PPG

Backlund is a better player

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Vancouver Canucks @VanCanucks
#Canucks sign Brandon Sutter to 5-year contract extension; average annual value of $4.375M.

Mind.

Blown.

Wow....awful deal....

[Finger Cookin]

They're building something special over there.

[theg69]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So when the Flames management look at their cap situation and need some cap room to sign Russell or Jankowski (for instance) they should just sit back and wait for offers for Wideman? The rest of the league will be aware of their situation. It does not mean that the Flames will get a better hockey player than Wideman.

If there was no salary cap I think that the Pens would keep defensively stronger 3rd line centre Sutter

With Cosby, Malkin, Kessel and Hornquist the thing the Pens needed was another offense first forward??

How is Bonino an offense first forward? He was used as a matchup center with a low offensive-to-defensive zone start ratio. He was praised for his two-way game even when his offense dried up later into the season. I think the Pens got a pretty nice return on a player whose name and "grittiness" overrates what he brings to the table -> which is namely a crazy overpaid 3rd line center.

Here's a nice article talking about how Bonino's game has evolved - and as a side note, it gets easier to not hate a player after he gets traded from Van.. LOL

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/w...-expectations/

[darthma]

This deal kicks in in 2016-2017 season. I don't think it's out of line with his market value. You are buying UFA years. He will make 3.3 mill this season as is.

He'd get 4+ on the open market.

The comparable contract for us would be Frolik in terms of age and dollar amount.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I think the trade definitely favoured the Penguins, but the contract is what I would have expected Sutter to get next summer as a UFA. He's a multi-time 20 goal scorer who I think in the right circumstances could be a 20-25 player while playing a 2-way game up and down the lineup. Not entirely unlike Frolik.

Frolik has proven more, but Sutter's a center who has had a decent playoff experience. So I don't know, it's certainly not as bad as Burrows at 4.5M, Sbisa at 3.6M, Dorsett at 2.7M and Miller at 6M.

[Locke]

While thats a terrible deal, it could have been worse.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by darthma

This deal kicks in in 2016-2017 season. I don't think it's out of line with his market value. You are buying UFA years. He will make 3.3 mill this season as is.

He'd get 4+ on the open market.

The comparable contract for us would be Frolik in terms of age and dollar amount.

Are you sure? Is there a comparable that's making 4+ with the this length of term?

[868904]

When you compare it to Frolik, the money and term makes more sense. They serve similar roles and Sutter is a centre at a premium position and can impact the game more.

The big thing though is that the Flames only give up cash and cap space, whereas the Canucks had to give that and player assets too.

There really isn't anything wrong with the term and money.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

This was most definitely a bad deal. Sutter was in the position of power and he bent the Canucks over on this one.

The majority I've seen consider Bonino to be better than Sutter even ignoring the contract. Now you have Sutter making more than 2x Bonino will be in 2016-17. This move doesn't make a lick of sense, especially in the cap world.

Bonino has looked great playing with players like Getzlaf and Perry. The Pens have plenty of combinations to experiment with now due to Bonino having experience at wing.

This trade will look even more terrible if Bonino can find chemistry with one of the 3 superstar forwards.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Are you sure? Is there a comparable that's making 4+ with the this length of term?

I think it depends. If you think Sutter can get back to his 45 point pace he was on with Carolina years ago (21-19-40 in 72 games), then his comparable would be someone like Frolik. Solid-2 way game, not afraid to match him up with anyone but certainly not the catalyst for offense. He was also arguably one of the best players for Pittsburgh in the 2014 playoffs.

If you think he is just a 20-15-35 guy at tops now, then he doesn't really have a comparable making over 4M...except maybe Burrows (18-15-33 last year at 4.5M ).

Frolik's coming off back-to-back 42 point seasons while you need to go back 6 years before seeing Sutter's last (and only) time he cracked 40 points. So it's certainly not a direct comparable and Frolik is the "safer" bet.

[shogged]

lol glad it wasnt us

[Burner]

Originally Posted by darthma

This deal kicks in in 2016-2017 season. I don't think it's out of line with his market value. You are buying UFA years. He will make 3.3 mill this season as is.

He'd get 4+ on the open market.

The comparable contract for us would be Frolik in terms of age and dollar amount.

except Frolik was an UFA which you pay a premium for and Sutter wasnt. They also traded assets to get him while the Flames got Frolik for cash...

I do agree that their contracts and expectations are similar

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by darthma

...The comparable contract for us would be Frolik in terms of age and dollar amount.

But NOT in terms of production. B. Sutter is a 30-point third.line centre, who should not be counted upon to improve a team's offense, nor to solidify a spot on the second line. This is a terrible deal because Sutter tops out as a good third liner, whereas Frolik can play consistently and effectively in the top six.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I think it depends. If you think Sutter can get back to his 45 point pace he was on with Carolina years ago (21-19-40 in 72 games), then his comparable would be someone like Frolik.

What reason could anyone possibly have to think this? Sutter has managed that level of production ONCE in his entire career, and that was five years ago. Recent history and virtually every season since then strongly infers that Sutter caps out as a 30-point player.

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

...Solid-2 way game, not afraid to match him up with anyone but certainly not the catalyst for offense. He was also arguably one of the best players for Pittsburgh in the 2014 playoffs.

That's a lot to bank on from one playoff series.

[darthma]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But NOT in terms of production. B. Sutter is a 30-point third.line centre, who should not be counted upon to improve a team's offense, nor to solidify a spot on the second line. This is a terrible deal because Sutter tops out as a good third liner, whereas Frolik can play consistently and effectively in the top six.

I simply meant that Frolik's age and dollar value are comparable. I think they bring different things to the table. Points-wise, Frolik is indeed superior (so far), but many (even CP pre-trade to the Canucks) would argue that Sutter brings a lot of intangibles to the table.

But yes, I do agree the price they paid for him was steep. I think that some discount what Clendening *could* become. Many Canucks fans had him slotted as their 7th D this year.

Originally Posted by Burner

except Frolik was an UFA which you pay a premium for and Sutter wasnt. They also traded assets to get him while the Flames got Frolik for cash...

I do agree that their contracts and expectations are similar

As for Sutter not being a UFA, all the years bought in his next contract are UFA years. if I understand the UFA rules correctly its 27 y.o. or 7 yrs in the NHL, and he'll be 27 next year. So in that sense it is comparable. Imagine if they let Sutter walk next year without getting him locked up - Benning effigies would burn.

And finally, there are some (re: Pierre Maguire) that subscribe to having a 'do anything' Center to build around (7 player formula). Remember when we had Yelle (aka Sandbox)? We loved him because he did everything. I'm not saying I'd pay him 4.4mill a year, but he was a big part of the 03-04 run. Perhaps that's what Benning is banking on.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What reason could anyone possibly have to think this? Sutter has managed that level of production ONCE in his entire career, and that was five years ago. Recent history and virtually every season since then strongly infers that Sutter caps out as a 30-point player.

Last year he put up 20 goals with Nick Spaling (27 points), Steve Downie (28), Beau Bennett (12) and Blake Comeau (31) as his linemates.

The year before he played with Tanner Glass (12), Craig Adams (11), Brian Gibbons (17) and Joe Vitale (14).

The lockout year it was Matt Cooke (21) and Tyler Kennedy (11).

His last year in Carolina he played with Dwyer (12) and Nodl (7).

You got to go back to 2009-2010 to see a time when he got to play any extended amount of time with a decent linemate when he got to play with the 86 year old Ray Whitney (58 points).

Much like Frolik's time in Chicago, Brandon Sutter was not placed in a position to put up points in Pittsburgh. Frolik was part of one of the best 4th lines ever because of Chicago's depth. But because of that he put up 15 points and 10 points in his 2 'full' seasons with Chicago. Sutter was with Pittsburgh when they had 4th line scrubs playing on the top line, the leftover wingers he received were easily the worst of any "third line" in the league.

If Sutter is able to start the season as the second line center and perhaps play with someone like Vrbata, that could arguably be the best player he's played beside in the NHL. But even if he's on a line with Higgins, Burrows or Hansen, those are all upgrades on Tanner Glass and Tyler Kennedy.

I fully expect Sutter to have a good year in Vancouver. With their weak center depth, he should be grabbing the occasional offensive assignments with "top 6" wingers. If that's the case, I don't see 40 points as out of the question. The flipside is, because the Canucks center depth is so poor that it's between the young Horvat and Sutter for that second line center position, the team wont be making much noise.

With all that said, I don't see why Benning didn't actually wait to see if that would be the case. Even as a Sutter 'supporter' I'm not expecting him to breakout in a crazy way this year that would make this contract look anything like a steal.

[saillias]

Burrows, Higgins Hansen et al today is a saw-off with those Pittsburgh guys he played with IMO. The only possibility for an upgrade there is Vrbata.