Cecil the Lion killed by American poacher

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

My only problem with this whole thing, while its a few

1) Internet shaming is like faux grieving where you have a core group that's actually upset about something, and a larger group that does it because it makes them feel like part of the pack. Its pack hunting and rioting on an electronic level. You know its like the protests where there are groups of people in there holding a sign, but if you ask them what they're protesting they have no clue, they just want to be part of the riot that's to come.

2) Is this really doing anything to raise awareness of money for that national park? This isn't about hunting or preservation, its about being mad about something.

3) I always get pissed off when I see people dragging their 4 year old kid out to a protest to hold a sign and they have no clue about what's going on. Its about using you're cute kid to gain points, and not about the protest itself, but its to show off your cute kid cluelessly holding their sign up so you can brag about how aware you're little precious is.

Look sport hunting to me is gross, the fact that they lured the Lion out of the national park, and the methods they used, and then the attempt to destroy the tracking collar means that someone knew that what they were doing is wrong.

But this protest is nothing more then people shouting, and when something else bad happens out there, those same people that are taking this thing beyond a way personal level will move on and Cecil the Lions death will mean absolutely nothing.

....

[Playfair]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

This guy has a felony record for lying to officials about an illegal kill he made. He killed a bear in an illegal spot and took it 40 miles to a legal zone. I'd say his past strongly suggests a flagrant disregard for hunting legally. He wanted the trophy, didn't really care how he got it.

No that is fair enough. I admit to not digging very deep but rather reading te posts here and reading social media. If there is precident and proof of his full knowledge of events in this case, then the backlash is definitely warranted.

The endless grief this has and will bring to his family members is incredibly sad. They are innocent a least as far as we can see.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Playfair

No that is fair enough. I admit to not digging very deep but rather reading te posts here and reading social media. If there is precident and proof of his full knowledge of events in this case, then the backlash is definitely warranted.

The endless grief this has and will bring to his family members is incredibly sad. They are innocent a least as far as we can see.

To be accurate, there is every reason to believe he assumed the 'hunt' was 'legal' initially. Which makes him no less an a-hole.
The legality of his actions after are much less certain.

[Derek Sutton]

The first rule any hunter or fisherman HAS to go by is to know the rules and regulations. It doesn't matter where you are hunting, be it Rocky Mountain House or Zimbabwe. If you fail to follow them, be prepared to face the consequences. There are stories out there that this guy may have been "duped" by the locals as well.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Love the 'ol "people are dying everywhere and we only care about dead lions" argument I am seeing today.... Yes, because we definitely need to choose between the two...

We are choosing between the two. Last week a guy kidnapped, raped and murdered an 8 year old in Santa Cruz. The general public is disinterested. Boko Haram executed 10 fishermen by slitting their throats with knives earlier today. How much do you want to bet Cecil continues to get more attention? In general I agree - the fact that other problems exist doesn't mean poaching isn't worthy of attention or condemnation. But like everything else to do with this story, the scale is just completely out of proportion.

To try and pretend or imply that the amount of resources, time, and money put towards wildlife conversation comes anywhere close to matching the same put toward human conservation, in any region of the world, is just silly.

It would be equally silly to suggest that the resources put towards wildlife conservation SHOULD be anywhere close to human conservation. Human lives matter more than animal lives, even when we think the animal is cool or cute.

it is probably coming from your typical group of counter-cultures who just can't stand the thought of jumping on any mainstream bandwagon. They will go back to not caring about either human life, or wildlife, in days I'm sure.

Or just people whose reaction to this is "yeah, that's terrible that happened and the guy seems like a horrible person... but really? All this over a lion?"

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Playfair

To play the devils advocate here, can it be proven without a shadow of doubt thst this man was aware this was an illegal kill and that the animal was drawn out from the park? If he believed he was on a legal hunt and did all that was required by law (not that that would make trophy hunting acceptable) the guides would be to blame for shady practices.

Does it matter? It's the internet - guilty until proven innocent. But then it's too late to undo the damage so... Off with his head!

Leaving personal emotion aside around the killing of an animal for entertainment I can't fathom how some of you see no problem with this kind of shaming. Seriously, what's the end game here? When has the internet done it's job?

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by kevman

Seriously, what's the end game here? When has the internet done it's job?

Death by Lion.
Dentist vs lion - man vs beast no weapons, winner takes all is the obvious choice

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

If you fail to follow them, be prepared to face the consequences.

And what are the fair consequence? If your forget to renew your WIN card you face a fine. Should you lose your job? Should you receive death threats? Should you have to go into hiding for a month? Is that fair punishment?

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by kevman

And what are the fair consequence? If your forget to renew your WIN card you face a fine. Should you lose your job? Should you receive death threats? Should you have to go into hiding for a month? Is that fair punishment?

We're dealing with an issue a lot larger then a god damn WIN card renewal here, lets be honest for a second. The guy knowingly partook in the POACHING of a lion he unfortunately didn't know was well known, then tried to cover his tracks which proves guilt. Lucky for him he was able to bribe himself off the continent while attempting to plead ignorant.

Like previously stated, its the responsibility of the hunter/fisherman to know the rules and regulations and legal zones/areas at all times no matter where you are. He chose to ignore that and shot it anyway for the sake of being able to prove to his buddy's just how small his unit is by compensating with a lion head he was hoping to bring home.

What do you think the outcome should be in your honest opinion just because I'm curious. I'm not saying the death threats are warranted here at all, because that's a bit extreme we all know this but whats fair?

[troutman]

Cecil the lion 'not murdered,' says Alberta hunter

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...nter-1.3174187

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by kevman

And what are the fair consequence? If your forget to renew your WIN card you face a fine. Should you lose your job? Should you receive death threats? Should you have to go into hiding for a month? Is that fair punishment?

Not renewing your WIN card is not the same offence as poaching a grizzly bear, just like a parking ticket does not carry the penalty as an impaired driving conviction. It has (not that I agree) become acceptable to lose your job for a racial tirade and fornicating in a hallway during the stampede (I was told she lost her job), poaching an endangered species lies in there somewhere.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Royle9

We're dealing with an issue a lot larger then a god damn WIN card renewal here, lets be honest for a second.

I was referencing this:

The first rule any hunter or fisherman HAS to go by is to know the rules and regulations. It doesn't matter where you are hunting, be it Rocky Mountain House or Zimbabwe. If you fail to follow them, be prepared to face the consequences.

And was simply questioning what fair consequences are. If I take a photo of a poacher in Alberta do they deserve the same level of shaming? In both cases the poacher may have broken the law.

proves guilt.

Link? Where is it proven that he's guilty? Where was the trial held? Who ruled he was guilty? I've seen a lot of "he's done it before he obviously has no morals" but in our court of law past indictments don't form a basis for a verdict.

[troutman]

Just noticed this thread is sponsored by The Lion King. #ironic

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by kevman

I was referencing this:

And was simply questioning what fair consequences are. If I take a photo of a poacher in Alberta do they deserve the same level of shaming? In both cases the poacher may have broken the law.

Yes, if someone poaches in our backyard absolutely they deserve the shaming, its illegal and attention should be brought to it. Slap on the wrist that is the Canadian judicial system unfortunately wouldn't amount to much.

Link? Where is it proven that he's guilty? Where was the trial held? Who ruled he was guilty? I've seen a lot of "he's done it before he obviously has no morals" but in our court of law past indictments don't form a basis for a verdict.

He's not proven guilty because he fled the country, we're talking a country where money talks and the police/govt are corrupt (lucky for him) Why would you lure the animal away? He's hunted like this before, he surely knew it was out of the ordinary, why not question the guides? Why try and destroy the collar? Is this normal behavior for a trophy hunt? Guilty until proven innocent, that's how it works, that's the law.

I'd still like to know what you think should happen to the guy if found guilty just for curiosity's sake.

[jeffporfirio]

Originally Posted by troutman

Cecil the lion 'not murdered,' says Alberta hunter

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...nter-1.3174187

Makes you wonder why you would want to go public to the media with an opinion contrary to the internet mob.....
(even if you disagree...discuss among your family and friends...don't go to CBC/NBC/ABC, with your opinion)

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by jeffporfirio

Makes you wonder why you would want to go public to the media with an opinion contrary to the internet mob.....
(even if you disagree...discuss among your family and friends...don't go to CBC/NBC/ABC, with your opinion)

Because she's a taxidermist. If sport hunting goes away, she probably loses her income source. I agree not smart at all to put yourself in the public eye like this, but she clearly has a motivation to try and paint this activity in a better light than it currently stands.

[peter12]

This whole thing is grade-A dumb. The Obama administration engages in a months long drone campaign in Yemen that illegally murders 100s of people, and inevitably leads to the country's collapse. No hysteria.

Lion gets shot by a dentist, and the world wants to ruin this guy's life with no quarter given. Dumb dumb dumb.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by troutman

Cecil the lion 'not murdered,' says Alberta hunter

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...nter-1.3174187

Had he not been shot by the American hunter, Hall says Cecil likely would have been the target of younger, stronger lions.

"I don't know if you've ever watched on National Geographic, but the death he would have suffered from those other males would have lasted days. He would have been chewed on, attacked, eaten then he would have been picked on by other animals."

Stuff like this drives me nuts. How can these people not see the difference between what happens as part of the natural circle of life and putting a bullet through the circle and then claiming it's somehow better.

"You know, like, all those trees we cut down, we're doing them a favor. The terrible process of getting old and rotting and decomposing, it must be frightening for the trees. So we just make it quick and easy for them! Yay us!"

[ernie]

I understand why people hunt. I do but it's not for me. I don't understand this type of hunt (i.e. one involving baiting).

What I also can't understand is why hunters believe posing beside the corpse of their hunt and mounting it on the wall is "honouring" the animal. That I will never get.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by troutman

Cecil the lion 'not murdered,' says Alberta hunter

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...nter-1.3174187

Why am I not surprised that someone from Alberta is defending this?

Dumpster people, all of them.