[Trade] Canucks acquire B. Sutter + 3rd for Bonino, Clendening, + 2nd. UPD: Sutter signed.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Sutter's linemates in Pit - Nick Spaling 2.2 M and Steve Downie 1.75M

Bonio's linemates Higgins 2.5 M and Vrbata 5M

Sutter got 21 goals playing behind Crosby and Malkin with Downie and Spaling as linemates. The #1 by TOI opponent he plays against Tavares.


Bonino's #1 opponent Mark Arcobello.


Bonino was overmatched by Stajan and Backlund in the playoffs.

The Flames will miss him.

Bonino's number 2-6 opponents were Burns, Thornton, Pavelski, Doughty, & Kopitar.

So don't let Arcobello at #1 fool you he was going up against tough competition as well.

[Flash Walken]

Fancy stats are one thing, but Bonino was terrible in the playoffs.

In my opinion, he lacks compete, something Brandon Sutter does not lack.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Fancy stats are one thing, but Bonino was terrible in the playoffs.

In my opinion, he lacks compete, something Brandon Sutter does not lack.

I think this is reasonable, but I will go back to my earlier problems with this trade and point out that while Sutter may provide an improvement over Bonino for this reason, it is at best a marginal difference, and at worst completely missing the forest for the trees. The Canucks are a rapidly aging team on the decline, with a very underwhelming base of high end prospects and players to build around for the future. Sutter might address some smaller problems in the short term (and I'm not even certain he does that much), but in the long term the Canucks centre depth that consists of Horvat and Sutter slotting in at #1–2 is just plain ugly. It would be like the Flames pinning their hopes on a much less skilled and smaller Sean Monahan and Michael Backlund to be their top two centres.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think this is reasonable, but I will go back to my earlier problems with this trade and point out that while Sutter may provide an improvement over Bonino for this reason, it is at best a marginal difference, and at worst completely missing the forest for the trees. The Canucks are a rapidly aging team on the decline, with a very underwhelming base of high end prospects and players to build around for the future. Sutter might address some smaller problems in the short term (and I'm not even certain he does that much), but in the long term the Canucks centre depth that consists of Horvat and Sutter slotting in at #1–2 is just plain ugly. It would be like the Flames pinning their hopes on a much less skilled and smaller Sean Monahan and Michael Backlund to be their top two centres.

In your analysis Sutter is equivalent to Backlund.... I can agree to that. I might not want a 1 for one trade because the Flames have spent so much time developing Backlund but if it happened I do not think it would be an obviously bad trade.

Bonino is not equivalent to Backlund. I think his equivalent would be Tanguay when he was the Flames #1 C.

I think of the Canucks are getting rid of Bonino while he still has trade value, like they did with Hodgson and waited too long for Raymond. A list of smaller skilled guys that make the Canucks a small team easy to play against team when added to the Sedins.


The Canucks are so similar to the Flames before the Iginla trade. They are locked into the Sedins. Might the Sedins have a great 2015-16? Not at all impossible. The same way we were all hoping that Iginla/Bouwmeester could carry the team in 2012-13 when we knew it was a long shot.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by T@T

I certainly feel that Pittsburgh got the better end of this deal and really hope it hurts the Canucks.

But the "Sutter's linemates play better without him" advanced stats stuff doesn't quite work given the other centers on the team.

Sutter's linemates play better with Crosby and Malkin just doesn't have the same ring to it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

...The Canucks are so similar to the Flames before the Iginla trade. They are locked into the Sedins. Might the Sedins have a great 2015-16? Not at all impossible. The same way we were all hoping that Iginla/Bouwmeester could carry the team in 2012-13 when we knew it was a long shot.

I think that the Sedins are most likely to show consistent, but slight regression from her until the ends of their careers. I don't expect either of them to clear the 70-point threshold for next season, and that is a problem since they are the Canucks mainstay first line for the foreseeable future.

It's the same problem that the Flames had a few years ago, except it is much worse in Vancouver because they are caught in an unenviable vicious cycle: they cannot really lay the groundwork for a rebuild until the Sedins are traded or retire; the Sedins are not tradable, and look as though they are not nearly ready for retirement.

So, while the Canucks are likely to return a 2012/13 Flames-like season this year, they are not going to benefit from the value of dramatic roster turnover that they need for at least a few years.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think this is reasonable, but I will go back to my earlier problems with this trade and point out that while Sutter may provide an improvement over Bonino for this reason, it is at best a marginal difference, and at worst completely missing the forest for the trees. The Canucks are a rapidly aging team on the decline, with a very underwhelming base of high end prospects and players to build around for the future. Sutter might address some smaller problems in the short term (and I'm not even certain he does that much), but in the long term the Canucks centre depth that consists of Horvat and Sutter slotting in at #1–2 is just plain ugly. It would be like the Flames pinning their hopes on a much less skilled and smaller Sean Monahan and Michael Backlund to be their top two centres.

Agreed.

For the direction they are going in, it's a good move.

The direction they are going in though is the wrong direction.

The more time goes by, the closer Weisbrod's Canucks look to his Flames teams.

Going to be ugly.

[sureLoss]

According to this: http://insidepittsburghsports.com/st...canucks/74364/

Sutter's extension with the Canucks is expected be 5+ years.

[Locke]

Wow, they're really banking hard on him.

[dash_pinched]

I was listening to Pierre McGuire on TSN1040 Vancouver radio over the lunch hour with Matt Sekeres and Blake Price and they were thinking around 4.6 million AAV on a 5 year contract for Brandon Sutter.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by dash_pinched

I was listening to Pierre McGuire on TSN1040 Vancouver radio over the lunch hour with Matt Sekeres and Blake Price and they were thinking around 4.6 million AAV on a 5 year contract for Brandon Sutter.

That's a lot for a guy whose best three seasons in the league are 40, 33 and 32 points. And the 40 point year was 09/10.

I saw get 'er done Benning!

[Enoch Root]

$23M over 5 years for Brandon Sutter would make me an extremely happy Flames fan!

Essentially, the same contract as Brodie.

Brodie or Sutter... hmmm

[868904]

Shouldn't Sutter's contract be more in line with Backlund?

Same age, production, type of player. Sutter is bigger but he's not a physical player, don't let the name fool you. I guess Sutter is more durable than Backlund though.

[dash_pinched]

Originally Posted by 868904

Shouldn't Sutter's contract be more in line with Backlund?

Same age, production, type of player. Sutter is bigger but he's not a physical player, don't let the name fool you. I guess Sutter is more durable than Backlund though.

On the radio discussion earlier today, they were referring to the recent Couturier signing as a comparable.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by 868904

Shouldn't Sutter's contract be more in line with Backlund?

Same age, production, type of player. Sutter is bigger but he's not a physical player, don't let the name fool you. I guess Sutter is more durable than Backlund though.

Because they were scored with the Flames Backlund's 51 goals are worth double?

In that case 102 > 98 Sutter goals


Sutter has been durable and a better player for longer.

Hopefully Backlund keeps improving but he has only been a solid NHL player for a season and half.... 80 games in Backlund seasons. After the lock-out season Backlund was 1 season away from finishing his career in Sweden.... and the first half of 2013-14 it was looking like he was done. He had some sort of Come to Jesus moment in December 2014 and has been a lot better since then.

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Bonino is not equivalent to Backlund. I think his equivalent would be Tanguay when he was the Flames #1 C.

Tanguay was never the Flames' #1 C. He was the Flames' #1 LW.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by TX_Flame

Tanguay was never the Flames' #1 C. He was the Flames' #1 LW.

Yeah, Sutter wanted him to play centre but he'd got so comfortable at LW that he didn't want to move. I think there is a lesson here for those folks wanting Bennett to play on the wing instead of centre.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Because they were scored with the Flames Backlund's 51 goals are worth double?

In that case 102 > 98 Sutter goals


Sutter has been durable and a better player for longer.

Hopefully Backlund keeps improving but he has only been a solid NHL player for a season and half.... 80 games in Backlund seasons. After the lock-out season Backlund was 1 season away from finishing his career in Sweden.... and the first half of 2013-14 it was looking like he was done. He had some sort of Come to Jesus moment in December 2014 and has been a lot better since then.

Backlund: 0.42 PPG
Sutter: 0.37 PPG

But that doesn't fit the narrative, so...

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, Sutter wanted him to play centre but he'd got so comfortable at LW that he didn't want to move. I think there is a lesson here for those folks wanting Bennett to play on the wing instead of centre.

Completely different minds between Bennett and tanguay.

Bennett wants to be the best, works his butt off for it. I think if he starts at LW it will make him hungry to improve his game and move to C. I get the impression Bennett wants to be "the man".

LW is a lot less skating, which is why Tanguay liked it so much.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, Sutter wanted him to play centre but he'd got so comfortable at LW that he didn't want to move. I think there is a lesson here for those folks wanting Bennett to play on the wing instead of centre.

I am hopeful that Bennett breaks in as a centre, and plays his NHL career as a centre. But it really shortsighted to think that moving him to the wing at this stage of his young career will be in any way detrimental to his development. More than half the forwards who are drafted are drafted as centres (Tanguay was actually also drafted as a centre); huge numbers of them make the transition to the wing seamlessly. This is a non-issue.