2015 Blue Jays Regular Season Thread

[Senator Clay Davis]

Not sure why people think Bautista and Encarnacion can be moved for starting pitching...ok, to who? The only teams that would be interested in over 30 year old bats are contenders or near contenders....who will not give up starting pitching for them. Prospects sure but that clearly doesn't help the Blue Jays now.

This isn't a bad move in terms of the trade itself, it's just poor asset management. Two good pieces that should have been included in a trade for something meaningful (pitching) went towards something unnecessary (hitting).

[Caged Great]

Smoak - .235 AVG - 9 HR - 28 RBI - .786 OPS
EE - .234 AVG - 19 HR - 56 RBI - .784 OPS

Smoak has less than half the AB's as EE and if they were the same Smoak would also have 19 HR and more than 56 RBI.

So it is possible to deal EE without losing much of anything from the roster because Smoak is doing a similar job.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by ClubFlames

I don't know much about the dressing room attitude problems but if you guys had a choice to trade one of EE or Jose Bautista who would you trade?

EE for sure, not even looking at it from the offensive perspective. Jays need Bautista in the outfield.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Not sure why people think Bautista and Encarnacion can be moved for starting pitching...ok, to who? The only teams that would be interested in over 30 year old bats are contenders or near contenders....who will not give up starting pitching for them. Prospects sure but that clearly doesn't help the Blue Jays now.

This isn't a bad move in terms of the trade itself, it's just poor asset management. Two good pieces that should have been included in a trade for something meaningful (pitching) went towards something unnecessary (hitting).

To clarify, EE would be a piece within a larger deal. Like the Reyes deal, the Jays would need to add a prospect or two,

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Smoak - .235 AVG - 9 HR - 28 RBI - .786 OPS
EE - .234 AVG - 19 HR - 56 RBI - .784 OPS

Smoak has less than half the AB's as EE and if they were the same Smoak would also have 19 HR and more than 56 RBI.

So it is possible to deal EE without losing much of anything from the roster because Smoak is doing a similar job.

Also a far superior glove. Seeing EE at first base these days is a little on the painful side.

Also, I think they got Tulo to bat in the 4 spot behind Bautista. That or he'll bat 2nd and Donaldson will bat 4th.

[SuperMatt18]

If you move Bautista for pitching you then just have a huge hole in the outfield.

EE can be moved and Smoak (and Colabello who can play 1B as well) could probably fill the hole at 1st base.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

If you move Bautista for pitching you then just have a huge hole in the outfield.

EE can be moved and Smoak (and Colabello who can play 1B as well) could probably fill the hole at 1st base.

Also Valencia in a pinch.

[Jason14h]

Bautista is incredible defensively too

He isn't though. He makes great plays on balls others wouldn't need to dive to get, etc.

He actually has a below average defensive rating by advanced metrics

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

He isn't though. He makes great plays on balls others wouldn't need to dive to get, etc.

He actually has a below average defensive rating by advanced metrics

He's not the fastest out there, but he covers the field relatively well. It's his arm that makes him an exceptional RFer, but his shoulder has been less than 100% almost the entire year. Regardless, the combination of his abilities in the field and his bat make him less expendable than EE.

[Jason14h]

SD's GM has basically been ripped off in trades all offseason, I'm sure we can trick them into giving up pitching for EE!

[Jason14h]

He's not the fastest out there, but he covers the field relatively well. It's his arm that makes him an exceptional RFer, but his shoulder has been less than 100% almost the entire year.

He has not had a + Defensive WAR since 2009....

To the eye he looks like a really good fielder, the stats say otherwise.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Bautista is still one of the best right fielders in the game

That is entirely untrue. He still has a great arm but Jose doesn't have anywhere near the range of an elite defender. I'm not sure I'd call Jose even an average defender at this point. I love Bautista but his skills as a defender have been greatly exagerrated.

I do keep him over EE because he's a better hitter and because EE can't play any position of the field to a satisfactory level (not even 1B) while Jose is passable in the OF and could easily do 1B when that is no longer the case.

[Galakanokis]

Collabello and Smoak easily make Encarnacion expendable. I would prefer both in the lineup right now over EE. Is Saunders ready soon? Carrera looks as though he could be a full timer and the emergence of Pillar could also make Bautista expendable. Trading EE for futures and Bautista for immediate help. I could almost see it.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Two good pieces that should have been included in a trade for something meaningful (pitching) went towards something unnecessary (hitting).

Meh, wins are wins regardless of whether the engine driving them is hitting or pitching. From all the rumors flying around I think AA is trying to hedge his bets... the rumors flying around all suggest that AA is escewing rentals in favor of players with team control (IMO a wise move consider the Jays position). You see it with the pitcher's that they're linked to (Carrasco, Friers) but ultimately haven't gotten... the only thing I can figure is that those pitchers aren't going to be available at a fair price so AA is moving forward.

Ultimately all I can say is this... Holy #### you guys! the Blue Jays just got Troy Mother####ing Tulowitzki!! AKA quite possibly the best overall SS in the game today.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

Collabello and Smoak easily make Encarnacion expendable. I would prefer both in the lineup right now over EE. Is Saunders ready soon? Carrera looks as though he could be a full timer and the emergence of Pillar could also make Bautista expendable. Trading EE for futures and Bautista for immediate help. I could almost see it.

... No, just... no. To all of that.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by Parallex

... No, just... no. To all of that.

Good pitching will always trump good hitting especially in the playoffs. Jays have won exactly squat with Bautista and Encarnacion in the lineup. And I'm tired of seeing pissed off Jose stroke a monster home run while being up 10-2 but go down swinging with runners on and down by one. If they fetch pitching you do it. Jays have three players with guaranteed money after 2016 so they need to do something soon and then you see it torn down.

This current trade makes them better defensively and slightly better offensively. Not nearly enough to make a difference. Casual fans love to Jose launch pointless home runs as its pretty and nice. Give me a pitcher that gives your team a chance to win just about every damn time he's out there.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Meh, wins are wins regardless of whether the engine driving them is hitting or pitching. From all the rumors flying around I think AA is trying to hedge his bets... the rumors flying around all suggest that AA is escewing rentals in favor of players with team control (IMO a wise move consider the Jays position). You see it with the pitcher's that they're linked to (Carrasco, Friers) but ultimately haven't gotten... the only thing I can figure is that those pitchers aren't going to be available at a fair price so AA is moving forward.

Ultimately all I can say is this... Holy #### you guys! the Blue Jays just got Troy Mother####ing Tulowitzki!! AKA quite possibly the best overall SS in the game today.

I mean adding Tulowitzki is exciting in that it arguably gives the Blue Jays the best offense of the last 10-15 years. But the best offense of the last 10-15 years is pretty meaningless when averaging over 5 runs a game only gets you to .500. Another big bat though is negligible to their chances of making the playoffs (let alone winning it all), whereas obviously a high end arm helps considerably considering it's easily the biggest weakness on the team.

Yankees offense is nowhere near as good but their starters are marginally better, and their bullpen significantly better. We see it time and again, that's how you win in the playoffs, get quality starts and let the bullpen win it. It's why KC should be big favourites to win the AL. Blue Jays essentially hoping to mash their way to winning it all. Could it happen? Sure but it's unlikely to work, which is why giving up decent assets that could have been better spent is less than ideal to me. Should be fun to watch though.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by troutman

Where does the offence rank on the road, when you remove the home ball park effect?

We lead MLB in runs scored on the road, with 267. Texas second at 242. Jays average 5.03 runs per game on the road. Second is San Francisco at 4.90.

It's like everyone else says: Tulo is a nice upgrade on Reyes, but he doesn't actually address a need. I'm sure we could have landed Hawkins without Tulo for a much lower cost.

[East Coast Flame]

So when you see comments about the Blue Jays not needing Troy Tulowitzki because scoring runs wasn’t the team’s problem, ignore them. There are no diminishing returns to scoring more runs; there is no point on offense to where the marginal value of a run scored is worth less than preventing a run from being allowed on defense. All that matters is the differential between runs scored and allowed, and you don’t get any extra credit for being above average at both as opposed to dominating in one and surviving at the other.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/troy-...ing-strengths/

Amazing trade, Tulo is a beauty. If he stays healthy, this is a huge upgrade.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

But the best offense of the last 10-15 years is pretty meaningless when averaging over 5 runs a game only gets you to .500.

Sigh... a run is a run is a run. Whether it's a run saved on pitching/defense or a run made on offense they're both the same. It doesn't matter if you give up 10 runs a game so long as you're scoring 11. Yes getting a really good pitcher would be nice... but you know what else is nice? Troy Tulowitzki.

The Jays aren't in a position right now where they can gamble on rentals and if the price on non-rental pitching is to high then you upgrade elsewhere... which the Jays did.

Geez man... this would be like having the Flames trade for Malkin and then complaining that we were already deep at Center and needed a RW.