Calgary Public Transit - Discussion

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Madman

It seems like those low floor platforms are about 1000x easier to construct, that has to speed things up when you aren't building 25 giant structures.

Yeah.. a lot of these new Green Line "stations" look like fancier BRT stops than LRT locations. Which is smart. Also makes lengthening them for 4, 5 or 6 cars way easier. Hopefully they're initially built a little longer so we don't have to go through what we just did with all the existing stations again any time soon.

Speaking of which Bunk, do you know how many cars are supposed to be part of the launch?

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Funny how much Mayors are associated with LRT projects. Klein with the original system, Doer with doing absolutely nothing, Bronconnier with the west leg, and Nenshi with the green line...

Isn't Bronco's legacy the ring road?

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Isn't Bronco's legacy the ring road?

The ring road is a provincial roadway, so nope

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Yeah.. a lot of these new Green Line "stations" look like fancier BRT stops than LRT locations. Which is smart. Also makes lengthening them for 4, 5 or 6 cars way easier. Hopefully they're initially built a little longer so we don't have to go through what we just did with all the existing stations again any time soon.

Speaking of which Bunk, do you know how many cars are supposed to be part of the launch?

I would think it would need well over 100 cars on the whole line. Likely half a billion dollars worth of LRVs.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I would think it would need well over 100 cars on the whole line. Likely half a billion dollars worth of LRVs.

Sorry, I meant.. 3/4/5 car streetcars?

But that's a good point. Is it going to cost us $5B to just build the thing, or $5B to build it and also have enough vehicles to service it?

[Resolute 14]

$5 billion would certainly be the estimate of the entire cost, including the cars.

And FWIW, the city's video showed five car trains, but smaller than what we have now. I would expect the new line would have no lesser capacity than the existing one would with four cars.

[tvp2003]

I would assume, based on the land required, that the SE leg would start before the NC leg. However, based on the timeline, do you think they would complete the SE leg completely and then start the NC line? Or work on both at the same time?

[SebC]

I wonder how much the possiblity that Conservatives might actually lose a Calgary seat played into this.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

I would assume, based on the land required, that the SE leg would start before the NC leg. However, based on the timeline, do you think they would complete the SE leg completely and then start the NC line? Or work on both at the same time?

It's hard to say. The only thing known is that any first phase will have to include some portion of the SE line, up to and including the new operations and maintenance facility (so likely up to Quarry Park station), as well as the downtown portion of course.

There has been musing about building both lines out from the middle, roughly simultaneously, as a conceptual strategy.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Sorry, I meant.. 3/4/5 car streetcars?

But that's a good point. Is it going to cost us $5B to just build the thing, or $5B to build it and also have enough vehicles to service it?

Yes, new cars to service the line are always worked into the cost figures of these projects, even so for the small extensions to existing lines we have seen in the past, where only 6 or 7 extra cars are needed. Up to the latest order of rolling stock, train cars cost about $4M per. The last order they were able to get for about $3.1M per.

The number of cars as well as the type and capacity of those cars is an unknown variable at this point (the videos are conceptual only). The cars themselves will likely be roughly the same length as the rest of the fleet. Concepts in the past have pointed in the direction of 5 cars, at the very least in terms of platform length, if not initial operation.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by tete

Wow, this is ambitious, didn't see this coming.

Can anyone speak to the use of low-floor LRV's and not going with the current trains? I like the idea, but wonder what will happen with breakdowns on the new line - you can't use cars from the red or blue line, so how many will CT need to have as extra?

New high-floor LRT lines just aren't being built anymore, and really haven't been since the mid-eighties. Since Calgary, Edmonton and a couple other cities were very early adopters, they have lines that were high floor from the outset, and thus every time they are extended (i.e. Crowfoot, Saddleridge, even the WestLRT was an operational extension of the NE line), they have had to build new high-floor platforms and buy high-floor trains.

The Green Line NC-SE will be operationally separate from the rest of the system, and thus is not mandated to built as high-floor. It will not share cars nor maintenance facilities with the rest of the system, nor will it likely be physically connected with it (as in the ability to shuttle cars throughout all lines on the system via track connections). Perhaps train parts and components could be shared though.

As for extra trains. The model Calgary and most other systems use currently is to have about an 83% availability rate. That is, during the busiest peak periods, about 17% of the cars are back at the maintenance and storage facilities undergoing various levels of repair, maintenance, cleaning and/or being kept in reserve to act as backups should breakdowns occur and trains need to be taken off the line. The practical availability rate right now is likely more than that, as there are a number of cars being used sparingly and awaiting retirement when the next order comes in.

Anyway, the scale of the current fleet and the scale of the new fleet that will be needed for the Green Line are large enough that they shouldn't see too many negative effects of not being able to share cars. Besides, as things are now, Calgary Transit currently operates 3 different types of cars that cannot be matched together to form consists.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by _Q_

This is awesome.

Now if I were to have my way, I would make sure that we had a subway station on the Green Line in the Beltline somewhere. Maybe under 12th Avenue. I really hope this isn't going to be built as an exercise to move people from the suburbs to 7th Avenue as quickly and cheaply as possible.

The map is a bit misleading in that it isn't detailed enough.

The downtown/Beltline routing (all but finalized) will be on 10th Avenue and 2nd Street W. The Green Line will not run on 7th Avenue, but will have a station in close proximity that will serve as a transfer hub between all the lines.

There will be a station in Beltline in the vicinity of 10th Avenue and 1st Street West that will be underground. There will also be another Beltline station near 4th Street SE. That one may be under or above ground, which is yet to be determined.

[Finger Cookin]

The best part of this announcement is that frinkprof is back on CP.

[HOWITZER]

The best part of the new line will be getting a new map! Here's one with an 8th avenue subway included.



(Yeah, I got no idea what is going on for downtown alignment, so I just made it up)

[SebC]

Low-floor kills the dream (well, my dream) or having the S line loop around to SE and NC loop to NE via the airport, or at least branches that make these connections.

[ken0042]

Is it just me- or are some of those north stations a little too close together? Many of them are 8 or 12 blocks apart. I get having a few stations together south of 20th ave, but beyond that it seems that the high speed advantage of the train will be lost if it has to stop so frequently.

[Wormius]

Depends. Is each station for both northbound and southbound directions? It does seem kind of overkill that far north, especially given how easily walkable that part is.

If they were separate stations for trains going in opposite directions, similar to some of the downtown stations like Olympic Plaza, Telus, etc. where the stations are staggered along 7th Ave. it would make a bit more sense, then it is more like 16 blocks between northbound / southbound stops.

[SebC]

It's about the same number of stops as S line or NE line, won't be too bad. Only 72nd seems a bit superfluous where there are a number of gaps the same length as 64th to Beddington.

[Muffins]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Depends. Is each station for both northbound and southbound directions? It does seem kind of overkill that far north, especially given how easily walkable that part is.

If they were separate stations for trains going in opposite directions, similar to some of the downtown stations like Olympic Plaza, Telus, etc. where the stations are staggered along 7th Ave. it would make a bit more sense, then it is more like 16 blocks between northbound / southbound stops.

Staggered NB/SB stations doesn't really work outside of the core.

Think about it, you park by a station, hop on the train and head downtown. How are you gonna get back to your car?

[MrMastodonFarm]

With low floor, how small the physical stations will be and how busy centre Street is the more stations the better IMO. The train will still be faster then all the bus routes going up center.

Oddly enough during the Friday commute I was stuck going up center, can't remember the last time I went that way during rush hour. The amount of routes, and the volume of buses on each route is mind boggling. Trains can't come quick enough.