Hope and Dispair in the ME

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Something lost on us westerners is the rhetorical nature of the Arab communication style. They use a lot of metaphors and overstatements in their communication. Sure, Hizbollah and Iran and any other power in the Middle East may have said that Israel should be wiped from the earth, but I doubt that is the literal expectation. I think if you use the Arab rhetoric-to-english dictionary you'll find that "wiping them from the earth" is equivalent to a "crushing defeat". Its kind of like when you pants the local bully in gym class and he states he's "going to kill you." He's not really going to kill you, but the rhetoric sure scares the hell out of you.

When scheduling a meeting, they also say (loosely translated) "We'll have a meeting on Monday if Allah is willing".

If the meeting on Monday doesn't happen, I guess Allah wasn't willing. It takes out all of the personal responsibility for their choices.

I don't think that their "metaphors and overstatements" are near as exaggerated as you make them seem. They know what they're saying, and yet have made no effort to clarify... yet it is "our" responsibility to read between the lines?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by calculoso

When scheduling a meeting, they also say (loosely translated) "We'll have a meeting on Monday if Allah is willing".

If the meeting on Monday doesn't happen, I guess Allah wasn't willing. It takes out all of the personal responsibility for their choices.

I don't think that their "metaphors and overstatements" are near as exaggerated as you make them seem. They know what they're saying, and yet have made no effort to clarify... yet it is "our" responsibility to read between the lines?

God willing

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think you're giving some pretty serious hate speech some over the top benefit of the doubt ... yikes.

if two countries are at war I expect them both to want to win. But if one group wants eliminate a race it's a completely different matter.

One is conflict. One is hate.

If the Iranians truely feel this way about Jews, then why are they not rounding up those within their own borders and sending them ot the showers? Because its not about hate, its about politics of the region. Its rhetoric and its the Arab way. Westerners need to understand this. My lord, have you ever watched two Arabs negotiate a deal? You would swear they were going to come to blows and then go on a violent killing spree! But they say their piece, strike the deal, and then go drink some tea and have a laugh. There are some really over the top things said that we just don't understand, but in the middle east they make sense. Don't worry, they don't understand wtf we're trying to do and say half the time either. That is why there is conflict. If we would walk a mile in each others shoes we would all be much more understanding.

[guzzy]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Can you ever stop being an *******?

At least 10 Lebanese civilians were killed for every Israeli civilian killed and you try and screw this into a Liberal anti-Israel bais?

I say thanks to the unprofessional (sic) reporters who risked their lives during the Israeli destruction of a country, otherwise we'd probably never really know about the loss of life on the Lebanese side.

Hate to break it to you tough guy but when Hezbollah sets up missiles next to apartment buildings full of women and children they are signing the death warrant for those civilians. Hezbollah is more at fault for the amount of civilian casualties in this affair. CNN showed Israeli surveillance taken the night that Israel blew up the apartment full of women and children and Lebanon cried foul. You could see the constant barrage of missiles (Hezbollah missiles) being fired from the courtyard of this building. Israel retaliated and rightfully so. If civilians were killed then hezbollah should not have set up shop right next door. How can we as Canadians support these terrorists to begin with? I saw a lebanese guy walking around downtown Calgary with a Hezbolah flag. Being the prick I am I yelled out, "death to Hezbollah". He freaked out and started yelling at me in Arabic......oooohhh that offends me being that I can't understand it. I am a big believer that if you openly want to support terrorism on Canadian soil, you should be shot in public without trial. If you want to carry a hezbollah flag or al qaeda flag and chant about our PM who didn't stand up for Lebanon, then you should be shot on the spot. This country is too soft and that is why we are currently breeding terrorists. There was a news report that 7500 canadians (so-called) were marching in Montreal praising Hezbollah). The armed guard should have been called in and there should have been a massacre of extremists that day. That would cure many of our nations problems, if you put a quick end to those who support terrorists on this soil

[Azure]

Guzzy, before anyone else jumps on you, like they will, you have to realize that we can't solve this problem by doing the exact same thing Hezbollah is doing.

As a free country, each person, terrorist supporter or not, has the right to a fair and decent trail, and also has the right to freedom of expression. I agree with you that it is sick that people in Montreal, including members of the House of Commons are marching under a Hezbollah flag, but under no means should we exterminate them on the spot.

[guzzy]

Originally Posted by Azure

Guzzy, before anyone else jumps on you, like they will, you have to realize that we can't solve this problem by doing the exact same thing Hezbollah is doing.

As a free country, each person, terrorist supporter or not, has the right to a fair and decent trail, and also has the right to freedom of expression. I agree with you that it is sick that people in Montreal, including members of the House of Commons are marching under a Hezbollah flag, but under no means should we exterminate them on the spot.

in a sense I totally agree with you but as a free country people take advantage of our freedoms. I am not saying I would actually start exterminating people for their beliefs but we as a nation that was founded on Christian principles need to fight harder to promote our principles. Canada has no identity left. When schools start calling xmas break, winter break and easter break, spring break it shows we have lost the beliefs that founded our country. We need to take charge of our own country by ridding ourselves of the filth that supports the enemies of our country and beliefs. Hey, maybe open gun fire in public without trial is uncalled for but so is flying planes into buildings. Maybe these so-called Canadians deserve trials. Let them have trials and when proven guilty, then they should be executed on the spot by the families of those who have loved ones to terrorism. Supporting terrorism should be punishable by death penalty and death penalty only. Give them a trial as long as the result is the same

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by calculoso

When scheduling a meeting, they also say (loosely translated) "We'll have a meeting on Monday if Allah is willing".

If the meeting on Monday doesn't happen, I guess Allah wasn't willing. It takes out all of the personal responsibility for their choices.

I don't think that their "metaphors and overstatements" are near as exaggerated as you make them seem. They know what they're saying, and yet have made no effort to clarify... yet it is "our" responsibility to read between the lines?

Yes, it is our responsibility. If we wish to understand them we must make the effort to decrypt their message better. And yes, their metaphors and overstatements are greatly exaggerated. Do some research on the language and communication style and you'll see just how different it is from ours. See, there is the problem. We use our filter to attempt to understand what they are saying, when we should be using their context to so.

Here's a little experiment for you. Go to any foreign language web site and take the written word and plug it into babblefish. You'll get a translation, but not a meaning. Until you have someone who understands their context, and can decypher the words so they come through that same filter, the message is never going to be understood. We don't understand their context, which is why linguists with a grasp of those languages and regions are so important when it comes to translation.

Consider when I say that I'm leaving at lunch to get my fixed. Now, am I going to get a shoe repair done, or have the trunk on my car repaired? Without context you don't know. When I say "I'm going to hunt you down and make you pay for the sins of humanity" does that mean I'm going to find you at all costs, and kill you in a ritualistic way, or does it mean we're going to meet later and have enough drinks that you wish you were dead? Again, depends on context.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by guzzy

in a sense I totally agree with you but as a free country people take advantage of our freedoms. I am not saying I would actually start exterminating people for their beliefs but we as a nation that was founded on Christian principles need to fight harder to promote our principles. Canada has no identity left. When schools start calling xmas break, winter break and easter break, spring break it shows we have lost the beliefs that founded our country. We need to take charge of our own country by ridding ourselves of the filth that supports the enemies of our country and beliefs. Hey, maybe open gun fire in public without trial is uncalled for but so is flying planes into buildings. Maybe these so-called Canadians deserve trials. Let them have trials and when proven guilty, then they should be executed on the spot by the families of those who have loved ones to terrorism. Supporting terrorism should be punishable by death penalty and death penalty only. Give them a trial as long as the result is the same

You're way to extreme for me, but whatever.

I do agree that 'if' found guilty of terrorist activites, after a 'clear' and 'fair' trail, terrorists should have the death penalty applied to them.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by guzzy

in a sense I totally agree with you but as a free country people take advantage of our freedoms. I am not saying I would actually start exterminating people for their beliefs but we as a nation that was founded on Christian principles need to fight harder to promote our principles. Canada has no identity left. When schools start calling xmas break, winter break and easter break, spring break it shows we have lost the beliefs that founded our country. We need to take charge of our own country by ridding ourselves of the filth that supports the enemies of our country and beliefs. Hey, maybe open gun fire in public without trial is uncalled for but so is flying planes into buildings. Maybe these so-called Canadians deserve trials. Let them have trials and when proven guilty, then they should be executed on the spot by the families of those who have loved ones to terrorism. Supporting terrorism should be punishable by death penalty and death penalty only. Give them a trial as long as the result is the same

Wow, and you're different from the Arabs you hate so strongly?

BTW... you are aware that there the FBI has been unable to produce any physical evidence of the Arabs on the planes from the September 11th attacks? You are aware that there is no link to al Qaeda that the FBI acknowledges, and they would love to make that link if they could. The only link that exists is the one the White House provided and the media has repeatedly echoed since the attacks took place.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by guzzy

Hate to break it to you tough guy but when Hezbollah sets up missiles next to apartment buildings full of women and children they are signing the death warrant for those civilians. Hezbollah is more at fault for the amount of civilian casualties in this affair. CNN showed Israeli surveillance taken the night that Israel blew up the apartment full of women and children and Lebanon cried foul. You could see the constant barrage of missiles (Hezbollah missiles) being fired from the courtyard of this building. Israel retaliated and rightfully so. If civilians were killed then hezbollah should not have set up shop right next door. How can we as Canadians support these terrorists to begin with? I saw a lebanese guy walking around downtown Calgary with a Hezbolah flag. Being the prick I am I yelled out, "death to Hezbollah". He freaked out and started yelling at me in Arabic......oooohhh that offends me being that I can't understand it. I am a big believer that if you openly want to support terrorism on Canadian soil, you should be shot in public without trial. If you want to carry a hezbollah flag or al qaeda flag and chant about our PM who didn't stand up for Lebanon, then you should be shot on the spot. This country is too soft and that is why we are currently breeding terrorists. There was a news report that 7500 canadians (so-called) were marching in Montreal praising Hezbollah). The armed guard should have been called in and there should have been a massacre of extremists that day. That would cure many of our nations problems, if you put a quick end to those who support terrorists on this soil

Ah yes, to get rid of terrorists, we need tyranny. Long live Josef Stalin, eh?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Ah yes, to get rid of terrorists, we need tyranny. Long live Josef Stalin, eh?

Fight fire with fire.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Azure

Fight fire with fire.

I guess so. The guy is suggesting that thousands of people should be murdered for their political beliefs, which is exactly what the terrorists do, so it is a "fight fire with with fire" kind of a deal.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I guess so. The guy is suggesting that thousands of people should be murdered for their political beliefs, which is exactly what the terrorists do, so it is a "fight fire with with fire" kind of a deal.

Notice the which would mean I was being sarcastic.

I don't think its the way to go about solving this problem.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Yes, it is our responsibility. If we wish to understand them we must make the effort to decrypt their message better.

If they want to be understood, just as if we want to be understood, they'll have to meet us half-way. As of yet, "they" aren't even trying.

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

We don't understand their context, which is why linguists with a grasp of those languages and regions are so important when it comes to translation.

And yet, when broached on the translation, those who understand their context and language never disagree with it. Show me where they have said "we don't actually want to eliminate Israel" and you'll have me in your corner.

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

When I say "I'm going to hunt you down and make you pay for the sins of humanity" does that mean I'm going to find you at all costs, and kill you in a ritualistic way, or does it mean we're going to meet later and have enough drinks that you wish you were dead? Again, depends on context.

So if anyone is ever hacked on for an exaggeration they can claim that their context is not understood? Whatever...

If I hear someone say "You're a dead man" and he has a history of agressive behavior, I'm going to take the threat seriously. If I hear Hezbollah say "Israel is to be wiped from the earth" with a history of attacking Israel, I'm going to take that threat seriously. I'm not going to back down and study it, looking for language translation context errors. Doing so only provides them with an excuse for their words/actions.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by guzzy

in a sense I totally agree with you but as a free country people take advantage of our freedoms. I am not saying I would actually start exterminating people for their beliefs but we as a nation that was founded on Christian principles need to fight harder to promote our principles. Canada has no identity left. When schools start calling xmas break, winter break and easter break, spring break it shows we have lost the beliefs that founded our country. We need to take charge of our own country by ridding ourselves of the filth that supports the enemies of our country and beliefs. Hey, maybe open gun fire in public without trial is uncalled for but so is flying planes into buildings. Maybe these so-called Canadians deserve trials. Let them have trials and when proven guilty, then they should be executed on the spot by the families of those who have loved ones to terrorism. Supporting terrorism should be punishable by death penalty and death penalty only. Give them a trial as long as the result is the same

Worst post ever. Guess I'm going to be executed on the spot because I'm not a Christian, and thus am supporting the terrorists.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by scuzzy

I am a big believer that if you openly want to support terrorism on Canadian soil, you should be shot in public without trial. If you want to carry a hezbollah flag or al qaeda flag and chant about our PM who didn't stand up for Lebanon, then you should be shot on the spot. This country is too soft and that is why we are currently breeding terrorists. There was a news report that 7500 canadians (so-called) were marching in Montreal praising Hezbollah). The armed guard should have been called in and there should have been a massacre of extremists that day. That would cure many of our nations problems, if you put a quick end to those who support terrorists on this soil

But apparently you're not a believer in free speech or a citizen's right to protest government policy. "Massacre" the protesters? Maybe you should move to a country that shares your values because the garbage you are spouting are certainly not Canadian values - tough guy.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by scuzzy

we as a nation that was founded on Christian principles need to fight harder to promote our principles.

We need to take charge of our own country by ridding ourselves of the filth that supports the enemies of our country and beliefs. Hey, maybe open gun fire in public without trial is uncalled for but so is flying planes into buildings. Maybe these so-called Canadians deserve trials. Let them have trials and when proven guilty, then they should be executed on the spot by the families of those who have loved ones to terrorism. Supporting terrorism should be punishable by death penalty and death penalty only. Give them a trial as long as the result is the same

You are a real piece of work scuzzy. You start your post talking about the Christian principles that Canada was founded on, then start spewing hatred and intolerance.

Oh, the irony.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I'm not lebanese either, but through research and self-education, I've come to know that Hezbollah provides much more than just 'hatred'. They provide social services, health care, education, housing, food, interest free loans etc etc etc, and are often the only means available to aquire those items. They also provide, as I mentioned earlier, the only effective means of maintaining lebanese sovereignty, an issue that binds all lebanese citizens, regardless of social, racial, or religious classification.

Yeah they provide social services, housing and cheques to families of suicide bombers, they provide health care to their injured "fighters" they provide "education" to their new extremist recruits in "schools." All that funded by Iran.

It’s fascinating that you applaud that. Scary, sad and pitiful as well, but fascinating nonetheless.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Something lost on us westerners is the rhetorical nature of the Arab communication style. They use a lot of metaphors and overstatements in their communication. Sure, Hizbollah and Iran and any other power in the Middle East may have said that Israel should be wiped from the earth, but I doubt that is the literal expectation. I think if you use the Arab rhetoric-to-english dictionary you'll find that "wiping them from the earth" is equivalent to a "crushing defeat". Its kind of like when you pants the local bully in gym class and he states he's "going to kill you." He's not really going to kill you, but the rhetoric sure scares the hell out of you.

You cant be serious. Their aim - the destruction of Israel is written in hezballah manifesto and in their political program. It cant get any more literal than that. Iran, their master, has the same goal - money and weapons to boot. Both share the same apocalyptic religious views (see hidden imam in shia religion). They are serious. Denying that is simply burying your head in sand.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Yeah they provide social services, housing and cheques to families of suicide bombers, they provide health care to their injured "fighters" they provide "education" to their new extremist recruits in "schools." All that funded by Iran.

.

Reports from most major news agencies say that Hezbollah provides more than what you're suggesting (strict support for their military cause). CNN had a story 2 nights ago about how Hezbollah was basically the only provider of any kind of public/social services in southern Lebanon. Unless everyone in southern Lebanon is a Hezbollah fighter...

I'm not saying that makes them good or bad, I'm just saying that what you're putting out there is false. They do more than educate and send off suicide bombers (or so says CNN, NYTimes, etc.).

It’s fascinating that you applaud that. Scary, sad and pitiful as well, but fascinating nonetheless

Holy twisting words batman! You're hilarious I often find myself using the word pitiful when regarding your philosophies. Why haven't you been around here with your anarcho-capitalist theories in the past few months? Been pretty quiet in your assaults against socialism, democracy, and the State lately...