Flames to announce plans to announce arena plans in the... future...

[hockey.modern]

Speaking of arenas, does anyone know if they are still having the Mint advertising on the seats this season? God that was awful to see with the mix of red jerseys. Looks like Christmas out there

[T@T]

Originally Posted by hockey.modern

Alright here's the last update. Everything is to scale to 200ft from google maps

I would bet large money this won't be close, you have everything gone from 11th ave north, millions upon millions worth of apartment buildings and businesses and not to mention the city doesn't even own the land the railway tracks are on, in other words everything needs to fit north of 9th ave/bow tr E.

For two reasons the whole west village area is a terrible idea anyway,

1) cost is stupid
2) a real nightmare for traffic

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Locke

I seem to be butting heads with you all over the place these days.

So your contention is that all Cities gains zero benefit from all stadiums and arenas everywhere and as such shouldnt give anyone a dime for anything? Is that the fish thats just a fish?

I guess we only really need to pave the roads that lead from the Mayor's house to City Hall then.

My point of view is that stadiums and arenas require some amount of public help be in the form of cash, land, tax breaks, etc, but that cities should stay far away from absurd arena management contracts and that they should look to recoup their investment over the term of the life of the stadium and under no circumstances should go 'Full Oiler' and just pay for the thing for the team.

The benefit cities get from these facilities is that they get to continue to have a pro sports team in their city. If that's something the people deem valuable, culturally or monetarily, and they can afford it, then fine.

"Because something is fun" is not an acceptable justification in our culture. Not for drugs, not for sex, not for anything. What's going to happen when we get a new facility? It'll be fun, exciting, we'll get to have a better experience watching our team. Great.

All the plans for 'redevelopment' and the alleged economic benefits just come off really disingenuous. Nobody hangs out by a stadium unless they're homeless.

Arenas that are built downtown work best because downtown inherently has a bunch of other stuff to do that isn't by the arena. And you don't need an arena to develop bars, condos etc.

The Flames are inarguably a huge part of the city. I think there should be an element of public support. Just make sure it doesn't impact our ability to pay for things we actually need.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The Flames are inarguably a huge part of the city. I think there should be an element of public support. Just make sure it doesn't impact our ability to pay for things we actually need.

I think this is the crux of the argument. At the end of the day not everyone will be happy and I imagine the majority will not (contrary to what Ken King says).

Any sort of tax payer involvement will likely piss off most citizens, because in reality those who get to actually attend flames games are probably a small portion of the City population.

Not to mention any blow back that would come when they can't afford to redo some infrastructure or something or taxes go up after the arena gets built.

Its almost a lose-lose situation. But they need a new rink, and I for one think a properly developed arena district would be great for me personally.

[hockey.modern]

Originally Posted by T@T

I would bet large money this won't be close, you have everything gone from 11th ave north, millions upon millions worth of apartment buildings and businesses and not to mention the city doesn't even own the land the railway tracks are on, in other words everything needs to fit north of 9th ave/bow tr E.

For two reasons the whole west village area is a terrible idea anyway,

1) cost is stupid
2) a real nightmare for traffic

Your right, West Village doesn't seem to be a very good option to hold a project that has been stated to accommodate multiple arenas and a entertainment centre.

I think the best location for the arena would be simply keeping it where the saddledome is right now, and completely redevelop that area that can benefit the stampede, the CFL & hockey all together and hopefully tie it in within the redevelopment of East Village as well. I'll see if what I can come up with like I did earlier but in that area.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by hockey.modern

Your right, West Village doesn't seem to be a very good option to hold a project that has been stated to accommodate multiple arenas and a entertainment centre.

I think the best location for the arena would be simply keeping it where the saddledome is right now, and completely redevelop that area that can benefit the stampede, the CFL & hockey all together and hopefully tie it in within the redevelopment of East Village as well. I'll see if what I can come up with like I did earlier but in that area.

There's no way that the Stampede would give up enough space for a football stadium on the grounds. And the Flames wouldn't be keen on losing all of the potential parking revenue that a non-Stampede site would bring.

[heep223]

An arena would be a perfect anchor tenant to develop west village. They'd save a ton of space if those damn Stampeders didn't need a new facility as well....

[Resolute 14]

nm

[hockey.modern]

Anything like this where the current arena is? Can still accommodate the use for the stampede as well.

Green - Commercial Development
Orange - Roads
Blue - East Village
Red - South Village?
Brown - Horse Track

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Locke

I seem to be butting heads with you all over the place these days.

So your contention is that all Cities gains zero benefit from all stadiums and arenas everywhere and as such shouldnt give anyone a dime for anything? Is that the fish thats just a fish?

I guess we only really need to pave the roads that lead from the Mayor's house to City Hall then.

My point of view is that stadiums and arenas require some amount of public help be in the form of cash, land, tax breaks, etc, but that cities should stay far away from absurd arena management contracts and that they should look to recoup their investment over the term of the life of the stadium and under no circumstances should go 'Full Oiler' and just pay for the thing for the team.

My contention is that they get less positive impact from Arenas than they do for any other city-redevelopment.

The fact that the owners can pay for it themselves is ancillary to the primary argument, but only serves to reinforce it.

It's corporate welfare for one of the wealthiest (the wealthiest?) ownership groups in the league.

If the Flames want to own land to develop a business on, that is already worth hundreds of millions of dollars, they can buy it and finance it just like any other business would be expected to.

I don't understand why that's unreasonable.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by T@T

For two reasons the whole west village area is a terrible idea anyway,

1) cost is stupid
2) a real nightmare for traffic

I think these are actually decent reasons to put it there.

- Cost is stupid because the land needs remediation. This needs to be done anyway, and a great way to do it is to dig a a couple big holes for some sports stadiums.

- This will force the city to actually rework the Bow/Crow/Memorial interchange. This also has to be done, and will presumably take care of the nightmare for traffic. Almost any place you put a stadium, the traffic will be a headache going in and out. This way they can actually build roads around the stadium with this stuff in mind.

- That whole area is trashy. Really trashy. Everything underneath the Bow is just what looks like abandoned warehouses and scrap yards. If putting these stadiums and entertainment complex in the area forces re-development of that area into new apartment buildings and the like, its a good thing.

[Robbob]

What they should do if they have to dig up the entire area is just put in an underground stretch like the airport tunnel out of the core to free up land above for commercial use or light traffic use.

[Lil Pedro]

Still waiting KK...

[troutman]

Breakenridge: Still waiting to hear the Flames' arena plans


http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/col...es-arena-plans

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Tapestar

Another "No new News" article from the Herald.

http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/col...es-arena-plans

Originally Posted by troutman

Breakenridge: Still waiting to hear the Flames' arena plans


http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/col...es-arena-plans

Sureloss'd?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I think these are actually decent reasons to put it there.

- Cost is stupid because the land needs remediation. This needs to be done anyway, and a great way to do it is to dig a a couple big holes for some sports stadiums.

- This will force the city to actually rework the Bow/Crow/Memorial interchange. This also has to be done, and will presumably take care of the nightmare for traffic. Almost any place you put a stadium, the traffic will be a headache going in and out. This way they can actually build roads around the stadium with this stuff in mind.

- That whole area is trashy. Really trashy. Everything underneath the Bow is just what looks like abandoned warehouses and scrap yards. If putting these stadiums and entertainment complex in the area forces re-development of that area into new apartment buildings and the like, its a good thing.

This is something long overdue as it's arguably the biggest bottleneck in the city now so getting this addressed is a big positive.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Sureloss'd?

Still waiting.

[Cole436]

A small update which doesn't really confirm more than we already know, but I talked to someone high up at Rogers Arena who said he's been hearing calgarys new development will be a venue for both a football and hockey stadiums, and the land will more than likely be the greyhound land. Money sourcing is the biggest holdup so far.

I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so apologies if this has already been confirmed.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Cole436

A small update which doesn't really confirm more than we already know, but I talked to someone high up at Rogers Arena who said he's been hearing calgarys new development will be a venue for both a football and hockey stadiums, and the land will more than likely be the greyhound land. Money sourcing is the biggest holdup so far.

I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so apologies if this has already been confirmed.

Confirmed X1000000, haha.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Cole436

A small update which doesn't really confirm more than we already know, but I talked to someone high up at Rogers Arena who said he's been hearing calgarys new development will be a venue for both a football and hockey stadiums, and the land will more than likely be the greyhound land. Money sourcing is the biggest holdup so far.

I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so apologies if this has already been confirmed.

If that means that godforsaken Greyhound station gets torched to the ground then awesome!

I'd pay good money to throw the first match.