[News] Bouma, Byron, and Jooris and 20 other players file for Salary Arbitration

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Less golden opportunities doesn't mean that many less shots.

If he scored 5 tap in's, and they've been removed from his 150 shots, his sh% drops

If he didn't get the tap ins he wouldn't get offensive starts and he wouldn't get as many shots.

Or

Just taking out the goals and not any of the shots is a ridiculous notion.

If we are rewriting time and 5 goals didn't go in I would argue that at least 5 goals would go in that didn't the first time. Simply because from where he shoots and the opportunities he creates he should be around 15%.

Again if he just lost 5 goals and nothing gained he'd be at Byrons level and he'd be on the fourth line.

And that's why Wideman and Brodies SH% subjectively seem great but are actually much worse than Byron's. All depends on the role. A league average SH% is a completely meaningless number.

[Bingo Jr.]

Flames will lose in the 3rd Round against Minnesota, 6 games. Flames will finish just a handful of points behind the Ducks.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo Jr.

Flames will lose in the 3rd Round against Minnesota, 6 games. Flames will finish just a handful of points behind the Ducks.

Wrong thread?

[smiggy77]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I'm a little surprised at the sentiment towards Jooris, we're so flakey and weird as hockey fans.

We'll spend years following prospects, clinging on to their every development, hoping they'll one day be good enough to be an NHL regular. I mean look right now, we're talking about over 15 prospects that we're all pegging as such and such potential, and HOPEFULLY they can reach it.

But for some reason as Flames fans, it's like as soon as a player makes the NHL, they actually lose a bunch of respect and worth in our eyes, lol.

"OMG, that guy killed it in camp, came in and earned an NHL spot, he's now one of our best prospects!!!!"

"Oh wow, Jooris is now scoring a bunch of goals at the NHL level, this is like found money, so versatile too!"

*off season comes in and fans get excited about upcoming prospects

"Oh Jooris, yeah that guy's old hat, he's alright I guess"

"Meh, lots of guys like him, easily replicable"

"We've got prospects coming up, sure you can say he was injured, but the truth is he's just not that great".



Meanwhile we're about to go into full geek mode hoping and praying for our prospects to turn out, but we lose perspective that a good portion of our prospects would be HUGE successes if they could reach the player Josh Jooris has become.

C'mon guys, lets not become HFboards here, where picks and prospects are viewed as infinitely more valuable than actual NHL hockey players all the time.

Perspective

thank u for this

[sureLoss]

Dates for all arbitration cases set:

http://www.nhlpa.com/news/2015-salary-arbitration-dates

Calgary Flames
Lance Bouma - July 22, 2015
Paul Byron - July 30, 2015
Josh Jooris - July 28, 2015

[Finger Cookin]

Every case will be done before August, nice.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Dates for all arbitration cases set:

http://www.nhlpa.com/news/2015-salary-arbitration-dates

Pressure is on. I wonder if Bouma has ceased negotiations at this point and is allowing the arbitrator to decide his salary..

The other two guys probably just want one-way contracts.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

Pressure is on. I wonder if Bouma has ceased negotiations at this point and is allowing the arbitrator to decide his salary..

The other two guys probably just want one-way contracts.

I doubt it. The way he plays, I'm sure he would want a long term deal. I don't expect any Flames to reach arbitration.

[sureLoss]

Chuck Gormley @ChuckGormleyCSN
Informed 2015 arbitration walkaway number is $3.799m. Teams can walk away from award of $3.8m or greater (was $3.5m).

So unless there is something really surprising with Bouma, all 3 are going to be signed by July 30th.

[Strange Brew]

tick tick tick

Flames need to be a little careful here with Bouma. Already have some decent $'s tied up in longer term contracts with complementary type forwards (Frolik, Stajan, Backlund).
Championship teams (e.g: Chicago) don't seem to commit dollars and term to these type of guys and/or cycle them out in trades.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Championship teams (e.g: Chicago) don't seem to commit dollars and term to these type of guys and/or cycle them out in trades.

Well... except for Bickell (although I imagine they probably regret that deal).

Really not too concerned here. I think the Flames have strong cases to present to the panels on all three guys. The only one I see getting a significant raise is Bouma and even then significant is only up to Dwight King-ish level money (so not overly onerous).

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

tick tick tick

Flames need to be a little careful here with Bouma. Already have some decent $'s tied up in longer term contracts with complementary type forwards (Frolik, Stajan, Backlund).
Championship teams (e.g: Chicago) don't seem to commit dollars and term to these type of guys and/or cycle them out in trades.

Complimentary type player? Bouma has no similarities to Frolik, Stajan or Backlund. You need all types of players to win and Bouma's skillset is very desirable. He's the type of player that always earns his paycheck and I guarantee you that Chicago has had these types of players in their cup runs. Bouma is comparable to someone like Bickell who you can't have enough of. He ended up getting overpaid due to his playoff success and rightfully so.

In other words, whatever Bouma will be earning after arbitration, he's worth the price.

[GioforPM]

The only issue for me is how the Bouma one is handled. It's pretty clear they signed him to a one year low end deal last year and said "prove yourself". So he goes and does just that, and probably expects to be rewarded with term and some decent cash.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by 868904

I've read a few times now about Bouma's unsustainable shooting percentage last year and I wonder how much it is a result of the extra skills work he put in last year. It's not like he was scoring weak goals, many of his goals last year were skilled snipes and his release and shot looks dramatically improved from previous years.

Lance caught lightening in a bottle last year, similar to our friend Shean Donovan back in '04.

I would be thrilled if he could maintain that pace, but I think it is fairly unlikely.

[mrkajz44]

I actually think Bouma will reach arbitration. I think the gap between what he wants and what the Flames are willing to give will be too large to close the gap. Both parties will think their offer is the reasonable one, and an arbitrator with decide.

I agree with those saying Bouma is not a "sign at all costs" sort of thing. He had a good season a deserves a raise for sure, but does that mean big dollars and term? Not in my eyes. I could live with something under $2M for 3 years maybe? Still a huge raise (2.5x his current salary) and $6M total pretty much sets him up for life. Good for both sides.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Complimentary type player? Bouma has no similarities to Frolik, Stajan or Backlund. You need all types of players to win and Bouma's skillset is very desirable. He's the type of player that always earns his paycheck and I guarantee you that Chicago has had these types of players in their cup runs. Bouma is comparable to someone like Bickell who you can't have enough of. He ended up getting overpaid due to his playoff success and rightfully so.

In other words, whatever Bouma will be earning after arbitration, he's worth the price.

I agree Bouma's skills are extremely desirable, but not at all costs. Hawks could afford Bickell as a championship team because for one reason,Keith and Seabrook were each making under $6 million. Now sounds like they are trying to move Bickell and apparently not finding it easy.

My point is let's not have too many guys eating up our cap before the stars need to get their big money.

More importantly, let 's hope we are in the exact situation the Hawks are in 5 years from now.

[Kavvy]

Sorry if this has been posted in here already, but how does term length work with arbitration?

Are term, salary and 1 way contracts vs 2 way negotiated with the arbitrator at the same time?

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

Sorry if this has been posted in here already, but how does term length work with arbitration?

Are term, salary and 1 way contracts vs 2 way negotiated with the arbitrator at the same time?

For term, I believe the team requests either a one-year or two-year term (the player might be able to make this request if the team filed for arbitration). Not sure about the one-way or two-way, but I imagine they're all one-way deals.

EDIT: Article 12.9 (c) of the CBA speaks to term.

"Election of Term.

The party against whom a salary arbitration election was filed (i.e., the Club in Player-elected salary arbitration and the Player in Club-elected salary arbitration) shall elect in
its brief whether the salary arbitration award shall be for a one or two-year SPC. Failure to make such an election shall be deemed to constitute an election for a one-year SPC."

Article 12.9 (n) seems to suggest that two-way contracts may be decided by the arbitrator.

"(n) Salary Arbitration Decision.

(i) Each salary arbitration decision must be issued by e-mail to each of the parties simultaneously within forty-eight (48) hours of the close of the
hearing.
(ii) The decision of the Salary Arbitrator shall establish:

(A) the term of the SPC, based upon the Player's or Club's election of a one or two year SPC, as set forth in its brief and as consistent withthis Article;

(B) the Paragraph 1 NHL Salary to be paid to the Player by the Club for the season(s) in respect to which the salary arbitration is conducted;

(C) the inclusion or otherwise of a Minor League clause (or clauses) and the amount of Paragraph 1 Minor League Salary to be paid under each of the season(s) in respect to which the salary arbitration is requested;

(D) a brief statement of the reasons for the decision, including identification of any comparable(s) relied on."

[gonzo29]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Well... except for Bickell (although I imagine they probably regret that deal).

Really not too concerned here. I think the Flames have strong cases to present to the panels on all three guys. The only one I see getting a significant raise is Bouma and even then significant is only up to Dwight King-ish level money (so not overly onerous).

King is a great comparable for Bouma, thanks for pointing that out.



Also consider that King has performed well in the playoffs for LA, winning two cups and putting up 24 points in 64 games. I originally had Bouma pencilled in for around 2.5 million per season, but I don't see from this why he should earn more than King who got 3 years @ 1.95 per season.

[hockey.modern]

per Treliving, someone has accepted their qualifying offer.