Vaccines don't cause autism (duh)

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

Paul Offit, an American pediatrician and vaccine researcher, wrote an interesting chapter in "Do you believe in magic," about the understandable link that most parents create between vaccines and autism. Basically, we sort of know that autism may be caused by congenital defects in the brain, most of which exhibit themselves at two years old. This explains the "shutting off" effect that most parents report on their autistic children. Vaccines schedules start at around the same time.

I do not blame these parents. I blame the charlatans, and scum that invite them on the anti-vaxx ship of fools.

For all of this, I am far more hesitant to allow government to coerce parents to vaccinate their children, and punish them if they refuse. The problem is communication, and it is a battle that will take some time.

Yeah, except the problem with that is there have been a number of studies done that seem to indicate that the more you try and educate some of these people, the more they dig in. The other problem is that there isn't time to wait for people to come to there senses when we're talking about infectious diseases. They're legitimately putting other people at serious risk.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah, except the problem with that is there have been a number of studies done that seem to indicate that the more you try and educate some of these people, the more they dig in. The other problem is that there isn't time to wait for people to come to there senses when we're talking about infectious diseases. They're legitimately putting other people at serious risk.

Honestly, that may just be something that we have to live with. Certainly, outright coercion can't have a positive effect.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

Honestly, that may just be something that we have to live with. Certainly, outright coercion can't have a positive effect.

Virtually every law and government act involves some level of coercion.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Virtually every law and government act involves some level of coercion.

So that means green light?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

So that means green light?

I think when it's an issue of willful ignorance and public safety, then yeah. We coerce people to not drive drunk because it presents a severe hazard for society. I don't see this as any different.

[Knut]

I am fully on board for mandatory vaccinations. The problem is that it is not just the un-vaccinated at risk when enough people do not vaccinate. The immune-compromised, the babies too young to vaccinate and even vaccinated children.

[Thor]

We have no problem with mandatory insurance on vehicles, yet you think coercion when it comes to children being protected in a public school setting?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Thor

We have no problem with mandatory insurance on vehicles, yet you think coercion when it comes to children being protected in a public school setting?

One requires money, one requires submission to a medical intervention with (albeit overblown and incorrect in some instances) side effects. They're certainly not equivalent examples.

I'm strongly and passionately pro-vaccine, but I'm not sure how comfortable I am with mandatory vaccination from an ethical standard or sustainability perspective

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

One requires money, one requires submission to a medical intervention with (albeit overblown and incorrect in some instances) side effects. They're certainly not equivalent examples.

I'm strongly and passionately pro-vaccine, but I'm not sure how comfortable I am with mandatory vaccination from an ethical standard or sustainability perspective

Mandatory vaccination?? Umm Public school has all kinds of rules, regulations for children to attend, the fact they now legally demand vaccinations is just logical.

If parents cannot fathom supporting science, then they can choose to home school, so its not about fascist government policies.

Its amazing anyone can argue this is about freedom or resistance to the government telling us what to do. When 99.99% of science says the measles shot is effective, and your 1 kid who is a special flower shows up at a public school without that shot and infects others, this becomes a matter of public policy.

[corporatejay]

People who are "mandatory vaccination" only mean that to use public school, right? Like you don't actually think that we should force children to vaccinate their kids.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

People who are "mandatory vaccination" only mean that to use public school, right? Like you don't actually think that we should force children to vaccinate their kids.

I'm anti children having kids as well.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

People who are "mandatory vaccination" only mean that to use public school, right? Like you don't actually think that we should force children to vaccinate their kids.

Parents can be charged with criminal negligence causing death. Failing to provide the necessities of life. How far should this be extended? Ex.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/11/22...efore-son-died

It is a legal requirement for a parent or guardian to provide food, shelter, care and medical attention necessary to sustain life and protect children from harm.

[FlamesAddiction]

I have mentioned a few times in this thread how my wife's sister's family are part of the anti-vaccination movement. Just last week I was visiting them and one of the kids was limping around. When I asked what happened, she told me he stepped on a nail so his foot was sore. I asked if he has had a recent tetanus show, and she said no, but that they were keeping an eye on it to make sure it wasn't infected. I was just thinking the whole time that she obviously doesn't even know what tetanus is, but she is an expert enough to know that he wouldn't need a shot for it.

It's to the point now that I don't even bother trying. I think they are going to have to learn the hard way one day.

[Knut]

^ that is negligence. Tetanus can lead to death.

Anonymous call to health services maybe ?

Are they in Ontario ?

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015...ical-care.html

The approach may be to convince the children they need to be vaccinated.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Hesla

^ that is negligence. Tetanus can lead to death.

Anonymous call to health services maybe ?

Are they in Ontario ?

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015...ical-care.html

The approach may be to convince the children they need to be vaccinated.

Quebec actually, but it is worth looking into if it is the same thing there. Maybe I can scare her. It seems like the anti-vax movement is really strong in the community she lives in.

[Minnie]

Not vaccine related, but a couple of days ago, it was one of these essential oil divs again, saying she knew more than the FDA and proceeded to trot out a bunch of conspiracy theories. I wanted so badly to ask her if she knew the FDA was a federal US agency.

But it's ok. She's done her reseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeearch.

[Thor]

Would love for the CDC to invite these advocates for oils and alternative methods to protect against viruses, to come to their labs and let them test their convictions

[WhiteTiger]

Not sure what to think about this beyond "WTF?"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle25419832/

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Not sure what to think about this beyond "WTF?"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle25419832/

Further evidence that Universities are interested in money first, education second.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Not sure what to think about this beyond "WTF?"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle25419832/

(I can only say that if I’d taught a completely absurd university course while being married to the dean of Scarborough campus – as is Ms. Landau-Halpern – I’d go a bit easier on the correlation-implies-causation stuff.)

I'm not saying she got the job by banging the dean but...