[Rumour] Giordano Extension. Kypreos: Starting point is $72 million over 8 years

[oldschoolcalgary]

i think that there could be a compromise (whether either party bites is a different question)...

but maybe something that has a 7.0 base but then performance bonuses that bring it up to 9 as a max? gio is asking for nine because he feels that he is performing to that level and can repeat it... a reasonable bonus structure, like games played, points of course, making the playoffs etc would allow that to happen but still insulate calgary if there are injuries or if he does hit the proverbial wall

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

i think that there could be a compromise (whether either party bites is a different question)...

but maybe something that has a 7.0 base but then performance bonuses that bring it up to 9 as a max? gio is asking for nine because he feels that he is performing to that level and can repeat it... a reasonable bonus structure, like games played, points of course, making the playoffs etc would allow that to happen but still insulate calgary if there are injuries or if he does hit the proverbial wall

A contract with Bonuses can't be signed until Gio is 35+

That's why it is best to keep term to around 5 years and then sign Gio to a new contract afterwards.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Nothing Treliving has done this offseason suggests he is going to write a big check for anyone. However, a lot of posters are really undervaluing what he brings as a Captain and leader of this team. That's not something you can easily replace, especially the calibre of what Gio brings. It's also a quality that will endure over time, even if his numbers start to decline with age.

People might think, "Flames made the playoffs and beat Vancouver with Gio on the sidelines". This is true of course, but you could also argue "Gio lead his team into the playoffs and into the second round, and he didn't even have to be in the ice to do it".

Always earned, never given. Gio's earned it, and won't stop earning it so long as he is physically able. That's a guy you want on your team, leading your team.

Why would you make that assumption? Don't think pep talks before and after games are worth 8 million a year.

[Huntingwhale]

Treliving is a wizard. I'm sticking to my guns that Gio will sign for between 6-7.

[Robbob]

From the sounds of it Treliving is a shrewd negotiator. It is going to be a long summer.

[Aarongavey]

I would think that Gio is the 3rd most important extension the Flames have to do this offseason in preparation for the 2016/2017 season. I sure hope Treliving prioritizes it that way. If there is some money left over for Giordano after Treliving signs priorities one and two then you see what deal can be done. If there isn't then trade him. Anything more than 4 years has to be around 6 million a year in my opinion.

[Dan02]

I think we're gonna see a retirement contact 8 years 52-56 million for a 6.5 to 7 mill cap hit, front load as much as the cba will allow.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by DJones

Why would you make that assumption? Don't think pep talks before and after games are worth 8 million a year.

If they are, Hartley is worth the entire cap all by himself.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

However, a lot of posters are really undervaluing what he brings as a Captain and leader of this team. That's not something you can easily replace, especially the calibre of what Gio brings. It's also a quality that will endure over time, even if his numbers start to decline with age.

Zdeno Chara is an acclaimed leader. One of the best captains in the league. A absolute beast in the gym. Best player on a team that appeared in two finals and won a Cup. But his $7 mil cap hit is going to be cap killer for the Bruins for years to come. Having a great leader is nice and all, but if it means you can't ice a contender, or maybe even a playoff team, it's not worth that kind of money.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Dan02

I think we're gonna see a retirement contact 8 years 52-56 million for a 6.5 to 7 mill cap hit, front load as much as the cba will allow.

God I hope not. Start picking the other young future stars you can't keep in that case.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Zdeno Chara is an acclaimed leader. One of the best captains in the league. A absolute beast in the gym. Best player on a team that appeared in two finals and won a Cup. But his $7 mil cap hit is going to be cap killer for the Bruins for years to come. Having a great leader is nice and all, but if it means you can't ice a contender, or maybe even a playoff team, it's not worth that kind of money.

I see what you're saying -- my point is that you're going to have to pay market (or even above market) for certain players and its not the end of the world if your captain and leader is one of them. The GM's job isn't to assemble the most over-performing contracts available -- it's to put together a team that can compete for Stanley Cups!

Chara is an interesting example -- are you suggesting the Bruins should have traded him instead of extending him long term prior to the 2010/11 season? If so, you probably don't win the Cup in 2011, you probably don't go back to the finals in 2013, and there's a good chance you don't win the President's Trophy in 2013/14. Was all that success worth it to now have to "overpay" in the final years of his contract? I think so -- success is a cyclical thing in the NHL; that's why you have to re-tool or in some cases re-build.

In our case, don't think for a second Treliving won't make it clear to Gio and his agent that in order to compete for a Cup he'll need the space to re-sign Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett etc and therefore can't break the bank on Gio's extension. Will he get a big raise? Absolutely, and it's well deserved. Will it be lower than "market" for a UFA Norris defenceman in his early 30's? I think it will be. Will he be overpaid on the last couple years of his deal? Probably, and that's okay -- the player is worth it IMO if we're serious about winning a Cup.

[AcGold]

But in 5 years if he's slowing down and getting overpaid that hems us in badly. If Gio is at his absolute peak, for a full season, he's potentially worth 9 or 10 million in contention for the Norris or the Hart. At his best he could be one of the best players in the league, but the issue is not how good he is comparatively but what the dollar amount is as a ratio of our teams salary.

Paying the best in the sport the most money might actually be a mistake. Pittsburgh and Boston are both evidence of this. If Gio wants 9 million for a long time we can't give it to him because we'll have trouble signing Monahan, Bennett and Gaudreau and Gios contribution won't be worth losing them over.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Gio's earned it, and won't stop earning it so long as he is physically able. That's a guy you want on your team, leading your team.

Agreed, but he's physically unable for at least 20% of every season, and chances are he will only become less durable as he gets into his upper 30s. To pay him $9m per is really saying that he'd be worth about $11m if he could stay healthy.

[#-3]

my feeling is

4y x $7.5M or
6y x $7M AAV.

I can understand Gio's starting point being at 6y x $9M.

But it's just as easy for the Flames to start at 4y x $5.75M, a point to a Bigger, Younger, Stronger, Faster, Healthier, top 4 D man signing with this vary team for that kind of money.

I'm confident some time in the next year they will meet somewhere in the middle.

[FBI]

I really miss watching Gio play. Maybe AC is doing a Gio video this year?

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by #-3

my feeling is

4y x $7.5M or
6y x $7M AAV.

I can understand Gio's starting point being at 6y x $9M.

But it's just as easy for the Flames to start at 4y x $5.75M, a point to a Bigger, Younger, Stronger, Faster, Healthier, top 4 D man signing with this vary team for that kind of money.

I'm confident some time in the next year they will meet somewhere in the middle.

You forgot one more thing 'nowhere as good RFA dman, who isn't a captain'.

[Jason14h]

But in 5 years if he's slowing down and getting overpaid that hems us in badly.

This trend of worrying what will happen in 5 years is really getting old. The point is to win games. A million things can happen between now and 5 years.

Paying the best in the sport the most money might actually be a mistake. Pittsburgh and Boston are both evidence of this

Yeah 4 Stanley Cup appearances and 2 wins. What evidence! And Chicago is now doing the same with their 2 stars!

And let's not act like Chara's contract is 'killing' the bruins. He got hurt this year, it happens. I'm sure they could trade him in a heartbeat if he was put on the market.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

I see what you're saying -- my point is that you're going to have to pay market (or even above market) for certain players and its not the end of the world if your captain and leader is one of them. The GM's job isn't to assemble the most over-performing contracts available -- it's to put together a team that can compete for Stanley Cups!

And yet Chiarelli was fired two seasons after making the Finals. And if the Kings don't make the playoffs and win a round or two this year people will start wondering about Lombardi. Managing the cap is a huge part of the job of GMing an NHL team in 2015. It's the difference between engineering a narrow window for success and a wide one.

I understand you have to pay to keep your top players. But it's a matter of timing, value, and age. Negotiating a big 8-year contract where you get 4 years of the player's prime at the cost of overpaying for the final 4 years may be worth it. However, Gio won't be 29 or even 30 when his next contract kicks in - he'll be 33. That means, optimistically, he'll have maybe 2 more seasons of top play left in him. So is getting 2 years of a player's prime worth overpaying him for 5 or 6 years? I don't think it is.

[Aarongavey]

If Gio's name was Ryan O'Reilly people would say that he is the type of player that you cannot build around because all he cares about is money.

On Gio's last deal he did the same thing, after one good season he drove a hard bargain and somehow nudged himself into top 35 paid dmen in the league territory after one good season. Good for him, but if anyone is under the impression he will back off the ledge on this demand they are delusional in my opinion. Any comparison outside of cap considerations to the Chara contract is laughable in my opinion. When Chara signed that contract he had put up 7 very good seasons in the NHL by that time compared to 3 by Giordano. He had won a Norris and been a finalist multiple times. Giordano is nowhere near what Chara was as a dman historically at the time Chara signed that deal

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And yet Chiarelli was fired two seasons after making the Finals. And if the Kings don't make the playoffs and win a round or two this year people will start wondering about Lombardi. Managing the cap is a huge part of the job of GMing an NHL team in 2015. It's the difference between engineering a narrow window for success and a wide one.

I understand you have to pay to keep your top players. But it's a matter of timing, value, and age. Negotiating a big 8-year contract where you get 4 years of the player's prime at the cost of overpaying for the final 4 years may be worth it. However, Gio won't be 29 or even 30 when his next contract kicks in - he'll be 33. That means, optimistically, he'll have maybe 2 more seasons of top play left in him. So is getting 2 years of a player's prime worth overpaying him for 5 or 6 years? I don't think it is.

That's an excellent point, and because of this, I think Treliving will be able to bring him down to a more reasonable AAV, especially if Gio is looking for a longer term (which I suspect he is). Not the $9M that some people are fearing, but closer to $6.5 to 7.0. He'll likely still be overpaid in the last few years but that's the price you pay for value in the first few years. It's also not a reason to trade him given what he bring to this team (IMO), unlike others are suggesting.