Same sex marriage; A look at CP's gradual acceptance

[ernie]

I'll repeat what Jon Stewart said when addressing this slippery slope stuff.

"What's to prevent someone from marrying multiple people etc?"

"You aren't born a polygamist".

Personally I have no issues is someone wants to be married to multiple people WITH everyone having knowledge of everyone else. It's not a big deal.

Incest? ya I have a problem with that.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Oh yeah, that's something I've thought about too. Often wonder what social issue I'll be flatly against for no reason other then I'm old crusty and afraid of change. I've been ahead on the Transgender issue for a while so it's not that. Who knows what's next.

Would you date a transgendered woman? Would you feel comfortable introducing her to your family and friends? I suspect that there's a day coming in the not so distant future when a "no" answer to either of those questions would get you labelled as a bigot just like saying that you wouldn't date a black girl would get you labelled as a racist.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by gargamel

Would you date a transgendered woman? Would you feel comfortable introducing her to your family and friends? I suspect that there's a day coming in the not so distant future when a "no" answer to either of those questions would get you labelled as a bigot just like saying that you wouldn't date a black girl would get you labelled as a racist.

Those questions are more of a personal sexuality issue. I can support homosexual and transgender equality, but as a straight male I do not believe anyone would scoff at me for not having an intimate attraction to a person with those qualities.

[Quincy Egg]

Body dysmorphia is classifed as a mental illness but gender dysphoria is not.

Some weird mental gymnastics going on there.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by gargamel

Would you date a transgendered woman? Would you feel comfortable introducing her to your family and friends? I suspect that there's a day coming in the not so distant future when a "no" answer to either of those questions would get you labelled as a bigot just like saying that you wouldn't date a black girl would get you labelled as a racist.

Does that get you labelled a racist? We hear time and time again how purple have racial presences to what they're attracted too, not often I see that attacked.

[Quincy Egg]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Does that get you labelled a racist? We hear time and time again how purple have racial presences to what they're attracted too, not often I see that attacked.

Lol, yes it does and don't pretend like it doesn't.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

Transgender issues are things I'm not entirely sure what to make of yet. Should I end up moving radically right or left as I get older, I could see myself being flatly opposed to some of the transgender issues. IMO, the transgender issue is much more complex than gay marriage. I expect that we will see tolerance increase greatly for transgender people as that's happening already, but I think it remains to be seen whether or not they can convince people to use gender neutral pronouns and the like. Right now, the far left and far right both have troubles with it with the far left having trouble making sense of it from the perspective of their feminist gender theories and the far right within their religious framework.

I think what I'm learning about the transgender issue is how desperately we cling to our labels and how scary it is to let go of them.

Look at how quickly everyone needed to put Kaitlyn Jenner into a certain category before attempting to understand it. Maybe there is no board er labels.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

Transgender issues are things I'm not entirely sure what to make of yet. Should I end up moving radically right or left as I get older, I could see myself being flatly opposed to some of the transgender issues. IMO, the transgender issue is much more complex than gay marriage. I expect that we will see tolerance increase greatly for transgender people as that's happening already, but I think it remains to be seen whether or not they can convince people to use gender neutral pronouns and the like. Right now, the far left and far right both have troubles with it with the far left having trouble making sense of it from the perspective of their feminist gender theories and the far right within their religious framework.

I'm confused by this, why would we be convincing people to use gender neutral pronouns? If they identify as a female you should be using she/her, if they identify as a male then he/him. I would think it would be pretty insulting to be walking around referring to a transgender person as them/it/they.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Does that get you labelled a racist? We hear time and time again how purple have racial presences to what they're attracted too, not often I see that attacked.

People are allowed to have racial preferences, as long as they are just a preference and not an absolute, I think. Though the reason behind it may drive some, too.

If you say something like "Well, I don't generally find myself attracted to black/Asian/Italian/etc women." I don't see that as a racist comment.

If you say something like "I'll never find a black/Asian/Italian/etc woman even remotely attractive because they are all a bunch of [insert negative whatever here]" ...that's pretty clearly racist.

Folks are allowed to have preferences, but it never hurts to examine the reasons behind those preferences to figure out why 'you' have them.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by Dan02

I'm confused by this, why would we be convincing people to use gender neutral pronouns? If they identify as a female you should be using she/her, if they identify as a male then he/him. I would think it would be pretty insulting to be walking around referring to a transgender person as them/it/they.

Haha, I don't mean calling someone it, them, they.
Some transgender people use (newly invented?) pronouns like zir, zem, ze, etc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender...8s.29he.2C_etc.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

People are allowed to have racial preferences, as long as they are just a preference and not an absolute, I think. Though the reason behind it may drive some, too.

If you say something like "Well, I don't generally find myself attracted to black/Asian/Italian/etc women." I don't see that as a racist comment.

If you say something like "I'll never find a black/Asian/Italian/etc woman even remotely attractive because they are all a bunch of [insert negative whatever here]" ...that's pretty clearly racist.

Folks are allowed to have preferences, but it never hurts to examine the reasons behind those preferences to figure out why 'you' have them.

I don't think preference is even the right word. Just like homosexuality, you can't control who you're attracted to, it's not a choice. I've only rarely been attracted to anyone of a different ethnicity. I know I'm not racist in the slightest, but there's nothing I can do about who I find attractive. Of course, if I run into a woman of a different ethnicity whom I do find myself attracted to (which has happened a couple times), I'm all for it!

As you mentioned, if you make it a choice, regardless of what your qualifiers are, I'd say yeah, you're probably a racist. You don't have to spout a bunch of racial slurs to be racist. And most people who think this way are likely not just against dating African-Americans, or Indian people, or whatever. They're likely against all race-mixing. "I wouldn't date a black/asian/latino/etc..." vs "I only really seem to find white people attractive, I'm not sure why." are very different.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

People are allowed to have racial preferences, as long as they are just a preference and not an absolute, I think. Though the reason behind it may drive some, too.

If you say something like "Well, I don't generally find myself attracted to black/Asian/Italian/etc women." I don't see that as a racist comment.

If you say something like "I'll never find a black/Asian/Italian/etc woman even remotely attractive because they are all a bunch of [insert negative whatever here]" ...that's pretty clearly racist.

Folks are allowed to have preferences, but it never hurts to examine the reasons behind those preferences to figure out why 'you' have them.

I tend to agree. I too am not generally attracted to people from groups other than my own, but there are exceptions. However, attraction only matters when trying to find someone to hook up with, to spend your life with ,etc.

These preferences are racist if you apply them to other situations like hiring, who your willing to build friendships with, etc.

IMO, everyone is at least a little bit sexist, racist, etc. It's normal to prefer members of your own group over those of others, as we can identify most strongly with them. I don't mean overtly so, but we all have subconscious expectations of our own and other groups that affect how we deal with these groups.

[OMG!WTF!]

I actually find it really offensive when people indicate a racial preference. It just seems ignorant and indicative of someone who would prejudge in other aeas as well. Like how can you be attracted or not attracted to someone without knowing anything about them? It never fails that when I talk to someone my initial impression of them changes.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Like how can you be attracted or not attracted to someone without knowing anything about them?

It's pretty easy to be physically attracted to someone (or not) without knowing anything about them...

[polak]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I actually find it really offensive when people indicate a racial preference. It just seems ignorant and indicative of someone who would prejudge in other aeas as well. Like how can you be attracted or not attracted to someone without knowing anything about them? It never fails that when I talk to someone my initial impression of them changes.

You never see a model on a poster and think they are or aren't attractive?

How can you blame someone for not being attracted to a certain feature?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by kunkstyle

It's pretty easy to be physically attracted to someone (or not) without knowing anything about them...

I totally get it. But I still find it offensive; just as I would a "no fat chicks" caveat on someone's wish list.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I totally get it. But I still find it offensive; just as I would a "no fat chicks" caveat on someone's wish list.

Finding it offensive that people have physical preferences makes about as much sense to me as finding it offensive that some people don't like cilantro.

[sa226]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I totally get it. But I still find it offensive; just as I would a "no fat chicks" caveat on someone's wish list.

As a complete aside, whether it was intentional or not, you may have the most distracting username on this site.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I totally get it. But I still find it offensive; just as I would a "no fat chicks" caveat on someone's wish list.

But there's a difference between "I only date white people." and "to this point, I haven't been attracted to these types of people."

How is the latter offensive? It's not a decision, just scenario that's never happened. It doesn't mean the person isn't open to it. To me no different than "I generally find myself more attracted to brunettes than blondes."

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by MattyC

But there's a difference between "I only date white people." and "to this point, I haven't been attracted to these types of people."

How is the latter offensive? It's not a decision, just scenario that's never happened. It doesn't mean the person isn't open to it. To me no different than "I generally find myself more attracted to brunettes than blondes."

Yeah for sure. That's reasonable. I just can't say that when someone says, "I only date white boys or I only date within my race" it isn't a bit racist. It strikes me as prejudicial. At the very least it seems ignorant in that the person isn't even willing to get to know someone who might be very attractive to them after all.

And it's not the same as liking or not liking cilantro. Leafy greens are way more complicated than relating to other humans.