[Rumour] Friedman: Flames aggressive in trade market. Getting calls on Hudler.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

The thing with Engelland is that he appears to play a lot better when he gets more minutes.

we must have watched a different season. All I saw was Engelland getting exploited in the slot for two months once his minutes went up, whereas at least earlier in the season you could blame Hartley for pairing him with Smid and both having the same limited mobility/puckhandling/passing

[DoubleF]

I am confused about the annoyance at Eggs. Isn't he technically a swiss army stopgap?

- D
- RW
- Gym rat/Character guy etc
- "Enforcer"

I thought that's why we brought him in.

[Fire]

You want Engelland in the #6 or #7 slot. If he's any higher, the teams defense depth is lacking.

[Poe969]

I think if he's a mainstay in anything higher, you're in trouble but he can fill in and not look completely out of place. He was essentially the Flames #4 guy for the last part of the year and the 2 rounds of playoffs. He's an awesome 6-7 guy in that he does his job but can do more at times.

[Vulcan]

The getting rid of Hudler because in some future we may not be able to afford him reminds me too much of our sell off of our stars during the 90s. We're in a rebuild, sure but we don't want to make the mistake of being in a constant rebuild.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The getting rid of Hudler because in some future we may not be able to afford him reminds me too much of our sell off of our stars during the 90s. We're in a rebuild, sure but we don't want to make the mistake of being in a constant rebuild.

There is also the crowd that wants to avoid big long term contracts for older players. Hudler was signed to be a 50pt second liner if the Flames could get the return of a 76pt first liner then irbid worth exploring. He won't be given away though that is for sure

[Mattman]

You know what?

I don't want to lose Hudler.

I don't care if it's "good asset mangament" and selling high on such a great player. I don't care if he has 1 more year left on his deal. I don't care if he's on the wrong side of 30. He isn't Glenncross who was a dried up veteran, he's a dynamic, hard working and selfless leader.

Hudler is such a classy and smart guy. He leads the hard working mentality that Hartley shapes for this team. He is happy here and he said tonight how much he wants to stay.

If they trade him I will be very sad no matter the return.


"...but that's why I signed in Calgary, becuase I want to be Calgary's Datsyuk, Calgary's Zetterberg... I want to be around a young group we have and show them the ropes a bit."

http://video.flames.nhl.com/videocen...0595&catid=597

[ComixZone]

I love Jiri Hudler more than a grown man ought to love a member of his favourite sports team.

[JohnnyTitan]

We are so lucky. This whole team plays for each-other. And that's why they never quit!

[T@T]

He probably doesn't know it but Jiri's preference tonight raised his trade stock more than points on the ice.

[browna]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

we must have watched a different season. All I saw was Engelland getting exploited in the slot for two months once his minutes went up, whereas at least earlier in the season you could blame Hartley for pairing him with Smid and both having the same limited mobility/puckhandling/passing

Yeah, you watched something else.

Took a quick look at the end of the year, at Engelland's split season, based on stats from NHL.com to prove out what I thought was pretty decent step up from him from early in the year.

A pretty unspectacular first 55 games at a -15, but in crunch time as the Flames try and stay in the race, the last 21 games after Gio goes down, his minutes increase by 60+% to average around 17-18 minutes and he ends that stretch a -1.

Averaged 20 minutes in the playoffs, -1 in 11 games...for reference, Russell was a -9 in the playoffs and Wideman a -2.

For a 5/6 (6 mainly) guy, that's pretty good. And as mentioned, one of the few who'd drop the gloves without much thought, which is still needed in this game for the boost it can provide the team.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...&postcount=289

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by browna

Yeah, you watched something else.

Took a quick look at the end of the year, at Engelland's split season, based on stats from NHL.com to prove out what I thought was pretty decent step up from him from early in the year.

A pretty unspectacular first 55 games at a -15, but in crunch time as the Flames try and stay in the race, the last 21 games after Gio goes down, his minutes increase by 60+% to average around 17-18 minutes and he ends that stretch a -1.

Averaged 20 minutes in the playoffs, -1 in 11 games...for reference, Russell was a -9 in the playoffs and Wideman a -2.

For a 5/6 (6 mainly) guy, that's pretty good. And as mentioned, one of the few who'd drop the gloves without much thought, which is still needed in this game for the boost it can provide the team.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...&postcount=289

Interesting stats, though you might argue they show just how good T.J. is.

[Poe969]

if you're going to argue that those stats only showed how good TJ is, then does that mean Gio isn't good since TJ's stats go down when playing with him? I think not only did England elevate his game, he did so in a way that let TJ elevate his game even more. TJ got to be the "roamer" and England was the mainstay on the back end.

England is a lock for the team as a bottom pairing guy, so much so that if the Flames picked up a top 2 guy, Hartley would probably keep TJ and England together and roll 3 pairs fairly equally.

[Jason14h]

I think not only did England elevate his game, he did so in a way that let TJ elevate his game even more. TJ got to be the "roamer" and England was the mainstay on the back end.

I personally did not think TJ looked anywhere as good when Gio went down. He looked like a #2 D dragging a #5/6 around the ice.

I have no problem with Engelland, he is what he is, but to think HE helped elevate Brodie's game? Seriously.......

[Poe969]

I was just making a point (or trying to lol). Of course Brodie played better when he was with Gio but he didn't look terrible with England either. England played a lot better with TJ because he had a great partner but TJ didn't look bad playing with England.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

we must have watched a different season. All I saw was Engelland getting exploited in the slot for two months once his minutes went up, whereas at least earlier in the season you could blame Hartley for pairing him with Smid and both having the same limited mobility/puckhandling/passing

I don't know. I saw a guy that gets paid about the same as Luca Sbisa but wasn't anywhere near the train wreck he was in the first round of the playoffs. It's like some of you have never seen a 3rd pairing defenseman on other teams. You only have to look at Sbisa and Bieksa to see that they can be pretty shoddy on most teams. Engelland stepped up and contributed far more than your typical 3rd pairing guy can and that's all you can ask really from a $3 million veteran defenseman.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Poe969

if you're going to argue that those stats only showed how good TJ is, then does that mean Gio isn't good since TJ's stats go down when playing with him? I think not only did England elevate his game, he did so in a way that let TJ elevate his game even more. TJ got to be the "roamer" and England was the mainstay on the back end.

England is a lock for the team as a bottom pairing guy, so much so that if the Flames picked up a top 2 guy, Hartley would probably keep TJ and England together and roll 3 pairs fairly equally.

Brodie was clearly and definitively worse without Gio. Engelland was a boat anchor dragging him down. With Brodie and Gio on the ice, the flames rarely get pinned in their zone. With the Brodie Engelland pairing the flames regularly got hemmed in. Brodie even had easier matchups when paired with Engelland because the were the second pairing.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I personally did not think TJ looked anywhere as good when Gio went down. He looked like a #2 D dragging a #5/6 around the ice.

I have no problem with Engelland, he is what he is, but to think HE helped elevate Brodie's game? Seriously.......

Well anyone who loses their Norris candidate partner is going to regress a bit when paired with a 5-6 guy.

That said I thought the more they played the better they got....which sounds obvious but it wasn't what I expected based on Engelland's first 2/3's of the season.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I personally did not think TJ looked anywhere as good when Gio went down. He looked like a #2 D dragging a #5/6 around the ice.

I have no problem with Engelland, he is what he is, but to think HE helped elevate Brodie's game? Seriously.......

Over the 11 playoff games Brodie was IMHO the best Flames player. He did not look like a #2. It would be hard to imagine Brodie playing any better than he did in the playoffs.

I think the team would have done better with Gio in the lineup but Brodie's performance without him was outstanding.

If Gio (as a 27 year old) elevated his game to the same extent when Bouwmeester went MIA the last 20 game of 2011-12 then the Flames would have made the playoffs that year.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Over the 11 playoff games Brodie was IMHO the best Flames player. He did not look like a #2. It would be hard to imagine Brodie playing any better than he did in the playoffs.

I think the team would have done better with Gio in the lineup but Brodie's performance without him was outstanding.

If Gio (as a 27 year old) elevated his game to the same extent when Bouwmeester went MIA the last 20 game of 2011-12 then the Flames would have made the playoffs that year.

Drink!