NHL Free Agent Frenzy July 1st.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

If Engelland can get 3x3, why is it so hilarious that a better player in Schlemko would get something similar?

Schlemko is not better. When you initially posted that I thought you were joking. He was waived twice last year and looked okay when he played for us. He is a 6/7 not a good 5

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by handgroen

mike green anyone?
29 year old, right shooting, calgarian, defense-men
not under sized at 6'1" 208lbs
won't be commanding a 7 million dollar salary any longer
but could rediscover his scoring touch in hartley's dmen in the offense structure.
4yrs @ 5.25AAV???

pretty balanced pairs on d

Gio LH - Green RH
Brodie LH - Wideman RH
Russel LH - Engelland RH

Aside from the fact he doesn't seem to want to come here, your scenario messes with top pairing which I don't want to see split. Plus, I don't see the Flames needing another offensive defenceman who does a lot of the same stuff as Wideman. What they are missing is the Reggie type.

Also not keen on a $5M plus contract for 4 years for a guy past his peak. He's not a top pairing man (despite you putting him with Gio in your hypothetical).

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

If Engelland can get 3x3, why is it so hilarious that a better player in Schlemko would get something similar?

I personally don't think he is better.

I think Engelland was overpaid at the time, but the Flames identified a specific need (RH D with size, toughness and leadership) and the market last year for those players was limited. As cap space was not a concern they paid what it took to land him.

[Vulcan]

If we can't find anyone better, I'd be okay with having Schlemko back as a 6-7 defenceman. Probably one year at around a M.

[Trailer Fire]

We aren't even into the dog days of summer and already the crazy opinions are coming out. Can we at least wait until a week or so after the draft?

[SuperMatt18]

I hope Franson is the guy that we make our first call on UFA day.

Big RH d-man, some offensive potential, and still young enough to just be hitting his peak as a d-man.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Aside from the fact he doesn't seem to want to come here, your scenario messes with top pairing which I don't want to see split. Plus, I don't see the Flames needing another offensive defenceman who does a lot of the same stuff as Wideman. What they are missing is the Reggie type.

Also not keen on a $5M plus contract for 4 years for a guy past his peak. He's not a top pairing man (despite you putting him with Gio in your hypothetical).

He may have changed his stance a bit since last summer but cannot confirm.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I hope Franson is the guy that we make our first call on UFA day.

Big RH d-man, some offensive potential, and still young enough to just be hitting his peak as a d-man.

I like the idea of Franson too but I am assuming some stupid GM is going to be backing up a brinks truck to his front door. With 5 or 6 or even 7 years of term tacked on.

Weak UFA market makes for poor chances at a decent signing.

[killer_carlson]

Schlemko could be had for 2 years, $700,000 one way contract

in my opinion.

But i'd rather have his spot open for a prospect to come and take.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

If Engelland can get 3x3, why is it so hilarious that a better player in Schlemko would get something similar?

While I agree that he's better I don't think that making one bad decision validates a proposal to make another bad decision.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I like the idea of Franson too but I am assuming some stupid GM is going to be backing up a brinks truck to his front door. With 5 or 6 or even 7 years of term tacked on.

Weak UFA market makes for poor chances at a decent signing.

Kind of hoping that his struggles going back to Nashville soften the market, but you are probably right and some crazy GM will go way too long on term.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Schlemko could be had for 2 years, $700,000 one way contract

in my opinion.

But i'd rather have his spot open for a prospect to come and take.

Let's be honest though - what prospect?
Wotherspoon should be expected to compete for a spot, but we saw last year that you need depth on D.
Who else is even remotely ready?

I see a big gap on the blueline in this organization in terms of having anyone else ready in the near-term.

[CroFlames]

I honestly thought Dubnyk was going to fizzle out and play minors the rest of his career due to his play in EDM and then being moved twice. There is no denying he played lights for Minny though.

It's hard to be fully confident in him though, at least for me. Was the 2nd half a flash in the pan? I don't know. I guess the Edm factor makes me lose confidence in him a bit.

However, despite all of that, 5x5 is not horrible. If he continues playing great, well whaddya know. If not, well, even Lou's albatross contract was traded.

Can someone clarify something though: Is Ortio guaranteed an NHL job next year? I thought he was subject to waivers only if he was sent down after his first callup, but he could still be assigned to the AHL straight out of camp, and be called up later in the year.

[dash_pinched]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I like the idea of Franson too but I am assuming some stupid GM is going to be backing up a brinks truck to his front door. With 5 or 6 or even 7 years of term tacked on.

Weak UFA market makes for poor chances at a decent signing.

I hope Jim Benning steps up to the plate as a stupid GM (lol)

[codynw]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Can someone clarify something though: Is Ortio guaranteed an NHL job next year? I thought he was subject to waivers only if he was sent down after his first callup, but he could still be assigned to the AHL straight out of camp, and be called up later in the year.

He has to clear waivers to be sent down at any point.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Parallex

While I agree that he's better I don't think that making one bad decision validates a proposal to make another bad decision.

Engelland was a reliable guy, and I don't think 3x3 is a bad decision. Examine the facts:

1. Barely a cap floor team at the time
2. Very sparse defensive prospects close to being NHL ready
3. A very public rebuild, which usually means it's hard to attract UFA NHL caliber players.

I think the way they handled the rebuild was excellent. Hire NHL guys to hold down spots, and let youngsters compete for them. I think signing Potter was great; even if it was just to remind the young guys that they won't be given anything if not earned.


Having said that, Flames are in a different spot this year. I'd love to have Schlemko back to keep the bottom pair warm until someone (wotherspoon?) can take over. The demand for Schelmko won't be huge, so you can easily sign him to 2x2 or similar.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Let's be honest though - what prospect?
Wotherspoon should be expected to compete for a spot, but we saw last year that you need depth on D.
Who else is even remotely ready?

I see a big gap on the blueline in this organization in terms of having anyone else ready in the near-term.

hang it out there for the summer and see what the prospect ranks do with their training?

Let's see what Morrison, Seiloff, Wotherspoon, Ramage will do over the summer if they know there is a spot there to grab.

Guys like Schlemko, Pardy, Diaz etc will always be available come training camp. I would rather leave a carrot out there for the young guys to look at all summer and risk losing Schlemko than I would racing to fill that spot now.

We have the benefit of time here - let's use it and see what happens.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

hang it out there for the summer and see what the prospect ranks do with their training?

Let's see what Morrison, Seiloff, Wotherspoon, Ramage will do over the summer if they know there is a spot there to grab.

Guys like Schlemko, Pardy, Diaz etc will always be available come training camp. I would rather leave a carrot out there for the young guys to look at all summer and risk losing Schlemko than I would racing to fill that spot now.

We have the benefit of time here - let's use it and see what happens.

I agree with creating competition but I think you need to manage risk as well. Competition includes that a rookie should have to beat someone else for the spot. I think there is no way Seiloff or Ramage are ready next year to play trusted minutes. Morrison maybe but still is rough in a lot of areas. So you have one guy really. That's not competition.

Right now you have
Gio
Brodie
Wideman
Russell
DE

I don't think you can break camp with just 5 dmen with experience. EVEN if Wotherspoon is ready, that still gives you zero buffer before you are playing 2nd year pros.

You need to bring back at least 1 or 2 of Schlemko, Diaz, or similar guys. Otherwise you are putting yourself in a bad spot.

If a rookie can't beat out guys like that - then they aren't ready.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Is it though? It would bring Dubnyk to age 33, pretty much the swing zone of a goaltender's prime years, and at $5m AAV, that is on the low end for salary for any of the current top 10-15 goalies, which I think is a pretty fair assessment of where Dubnyk is at right now. Of course there would be some risk, there is risk with any player. Will he regress? Maybe, probably. Will he regress to his 13/14 Levels? I really doubt it. Will he provide Ramo/Hiller type goaltending at the very least? I'd bet on it. There is also the chance he is a lights out phenomenon like this year, he has proven capable of that though I would not expect it.

My point is that he is as more likely to stabilize our goaltending for the next half-decade than any of Hiller, Ramo, Lehner, Talbot, Ortio, Gillies or McDonald.... He's more proven than any of those options and he's free (trade asset wise). Not that I don't believe in our younger options, I just don't think any of them will be ready to be starter for 2-3 years, at least. We need someone to bridge that gap, as the worst thing we could do would be to rush a young goalie.

Even if we re-sign Ortio to be a $1.5m backup in a year's time, that's only $6.5m tied up in goaltending, well within the range contenders spend on the position. Not sure how that's "painting us into a corner" unless you really doubt Dubnyk's ability to play to his career averages over the next five years. I see no reason to believe he won't perform AT LEAST to that level, and that is going to cost something in UFA. At minimum, $5m AAV for a player of this caliber has to be expected, and with some term. It's not as big a risk as some think. You have to pay someone to be your goalie after all, and Devan is as good, or better, than any other option available at moment.

Sign Dubnyk, stick it to the Oilers, develop our young goalies with patience... what's not to like? Someone's got to be the starter for the short-medium term, and I'd rather him than Hiller or Ramo personally.

Unlike the Dubnyk skeptics, I think Dubnyk/Ortio will end up being one of the top tandems in the NHL like Lundqvist/Talbot. The only issue I see with it is that the Flames might win too many games on strong goaltending and compromise their draft position before having the Forwards or defense core to be a bonafide contender (Like what's happened with Montreal, Columbus, New York and Colorado). It's a double-edged sword to have strong goaltending before you're ready for it.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Because he is overpaid on purpose (was it to meet cap floor?) and serves multiple roles. You don't overpay Schlemko to meet Engelland's numbers when Engelland's numbers are overpayment. You pay him normal salary.

Engelland was acquired because he could fit the following roles:
- Work ethic
- RW in a pinch (Based on how worried Treliving may have been regarding our RW weakness last year)
- Defence
- Enforcer
- Meet cap floor?

Pure speculation from me on this point, perhaps he was a backup plan to Setoguchi and McGrattan as well. Engelland might not be a great RW, but can play RW in a pinch and for sure would have easily kept pace with these two guys above who were penciled in at the beginning of the year. It was worth overpaying Engelland to have flexibility in a player for meeting several team weaknesses (RW and D).

Schlemko meets maybe two of the above. Not worth overpaying at this point. And I don't see the support that Schlemko is better than Engelland. IIRC, Engelland played more than Schlemko. That supports the opposite.

That is an interesting take on why Engelland was rightly or wrongly paid 3MM a year. Ice time isn't a fair evualator for comparing the two players though, because as we saw all year, Hartley preferred to give ice time to the players who had spent the year in his system (see Drew Shore).

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Schlemko is not better. When you initially posted that I thought you were joking. He was waived twice last year and looked okay when he played for us. He is a 6/7 not a good 5

He is a good 5, look at his possession numbers, they're borderline top pair according to his HERO chart. Look at his and Engelland's WOWY (with or without you). Schlemko made his line mates better, Engelland made them worse, most notably TJ Brodie whose possession numbers dropped by more than 10% when he was playing with Engelland. Corsi isn't the be all end all stat but it shows possession better than anything else. In my opinion Schlemko was a much better player just by watching as well due to his great 1st pass ability. Why do believe Engelland is so much better? Schlemko seems gritty and like he has intangibles as well.