CP Mafia 4 - The Unknown Host - Game Over!

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Read this sentence. Why was SebC not mentioned? He had as much or more confirmed status. You've never disagreed with that. Now that he's been found Turned it looks suspicious.

Go back and read my posts. I've discussed it many times. I've also discussed that I've discussed it many times, many times. Peanut even pointed out where I had my suspicions. He ended up being a passenger, but that doesn't mean I wasn't suspicious of him on some level. If you don't want to read where I've talked about it, or you are trying to push another agenda, then there is no point in debating with you. All you are doing is creating noise with this.

[Oling_Roachinen]

And it's the same with your new list. You mention Devo22 having the spore, the Host killing because they knew SebC would be investigated etc. And to your credit those are certainly possibilities that I wasn't thinking about.

But you mention one of the more obvious scenarios:
"He was turned on night 3, but the Agent investigated Oling on night 4 at my urging. Seb sent the spore to someone on night 4 and that person is also turned."

The next possiblility should have been:
"He was turned on night 3, but the Agent investigated Oling on night 4 at my urging. Seb sent the spore to someone on night 4 and that person has not been turned."

There`s a lot of people yet to post, so assuming they already turned is weird when you`re thinking so deep about the possibilities and didn`t think of that one.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

And it's the same with your new list. You mention Devo22 having the spore, the Host killing because they knew SebC would be investigated etc. And to your credit those are certainly possibilities that I wasn't thinking about.

But you mention one of the more obvious scenarios:
"He was turned on night 3, but the Agent investigated Oling on night 4 at my urging. Seb sent the spore to someone on night 4 and that person is also turned."

The next possiblility should have been:
"He was turned on night 3, but the Agent investigated Oling on night 4 at my urging. Seb sent the spore to someone on night 4 and that person has not been turned."

There`s a lot of people yet to post, so assuming they already turned is weird when you`re thinking so deep about the possibilities and didn`t think of that one.

Just because you put together a list, doesn't mean every single other person is going to have the exact same list. GGG just said if he made a list that one of my options he wouldn't have thought of. Looking into my recent list, I'm guessing I could come up with a few more possibilities, even if they are far fetched. Just because you think the next point should be something, doesn't mean I would have thought the same way. We are different people and have different thoughts.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

Go back and read my posts. I've discussed it many times. I've also discussed that I've discussed it many times, many times. Peanut even pointed out where I had my suspicions. He ended up being a passenger, but that doesn't mean I wasn't suspicious of him on some level. If you don't want to read where I've talked about it, or you are trying to push another agenda, then there is no point in debating with you. All you are doing is creating noise with this.

I don't disagree that you did discuss it Squiggs96. I'm arguing that what you've said about it doesn't make sense, and with SebC revealing Turned we need to look at it.

You first, at least to me, imply that me and Puxlut are confirmed townies. When I question you on why SebC wasn't on that list but I was, you argue that I'm not confirmed town but others think so. That still doesn't explain why SebC was not on your list because more people thought he was town.

We keep going back and forth, for sure, but there's never been any good explanation on why you didn't put SebC on that list. You didn't trust me either. You've had doubts about me from Day 1. That's fair. But then it doesn't make sense why you left SebC off that list.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

Looking into my recent list, I'm guessing I could come up with a few more possibilities, even if they are far fetched.

But the one you left off isn't farfetched. If you're thinking that SebC was turned on Night 3 and passed the spore on Night 4 to someone then you got 3 possibilities: that person turned, that person didn't or SebC passed it to Host.

You didn't mention those 2 other far more obvious possibilities. You instead go to Devo22 having the spore and the Host killing to get it back etc. It's weird.

[Party Elephant]

Hey guys sorry it's taken me so long to post. Winterfest just started and I've been short staffed and absolutely flat out at work (tourists everywhere!). I'll probably be a bit of a drive by poster for the next few days but I'll be reading up on the thread when I can.

When I saw that seb had been turned my first thought was that it really showed the spat between squiggs and oling in a different light. When all that was happening it just seemed like a pissing match so I skimmed over it whenever those two would get into it. Now it really seems like squiggs was trying to protect seb. I see there's a few posters who agree.

vote: squiggs96

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

Is anyone up for picking sides on an HG vs. diss vote off? We all decide which of these two is a host and vote to lynch one of them?

Pros? Cons? Would either of them agree to this?

There's also this. A host would be all over us narrowing the scope of the vote down to two fighting townies.

[squiggs96]

On Day 4 GGG posts this:

Originally Posted by GGG

I'll say this again but send the spore to Seb if you get it tonight. His zero involvement is hurting the town. Don't waste it on pux as she is confirmed town until she gets the spore once which she will tell us if it happens. Real confirmed townies at end game are of a huge value.

Seb responds with:

Originally Posted by SebC

My non-involvment is hurting the town? Your involvement is hurting the town! You are advocating the the town do what you state is scums best play.

vote: GGG

Read that on the assumption that Seb is still a vanilla passenger. He seems angry and does not want the spore.

Assuming Seb receives the spore and is turned that night, he posts this on Day 5:

Originally Posted by SebC

ECF also warned us that Puxlut may not be town.

At this point Seb is turned. He tries to place some heat onto Pux, whom is seen as the most likely townie. Why would he do that? My guess is since he is turned, his endgame has changed and he is trying to implicate Pux. It gains no traction.

Just prior to this he goes after, and votes, for me. So Seb turns up turned and lists me as his number one suspect. His last vote is on me. His last comment that is not posting the vote count is he doesn't see a point in moving off of me. My guess is Seb was laying a trap to try and leave evidence that I am a host. If he was killed by the Agent that was unlucky for him. If he was killed by the host to place blame on me, then it's unlucky for me and the town. I'm not so sure I'd be believing stuff a dead turned has said right before they were killed. That's bad play if you do.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Party Elephant

There's also this. A host would be all over us narrowing the scope of the vote down to two fighting townies.

That's been discussed many times. You're just taking the route of Oling when you try and bring up things again and again that were previously discussed. You must be taking your directions well. At least read what I've posted rather than pulling out one post without the rest of the context.

And who was it who started all the vote movement on Thursday night? Yup, that was me. It went from starseed being lynched to this at one point:

Party Elephant (3): bizaro86, GGG, squiggs96
starseed (2): mrkajz44, dissentowner
mrkajz44 (2): Hockeyguy15, Party Elephant
devo22 (2): Oling_Roachinen, starseed
squiggs96 (2): SebC, Puxlut
Oling_Roachinen (1): Peanut

I was even tempted to move off you to Oling so that there would be five people with two votes each. In the end devo was lynched, and it was Oling and starseed who started the votes for him. A few hours before the deadline there were 5 votes on mrk, and the same 2 on devo. You ended up being the 5th vote, enough for the deadline lynch.

[Oling_Roachinen]

SebC wouldn't want the spore because that makes him a target for Government Agent as well. I don't think we can draw a conclusion there.

His post on Puxlut was weird, as far as I'm concerned she's confirmed town. If SebC was trying to use a known townie to try and get rid of our confirmed townie, I was certainly interested who was going to try and come up with a way to reduce Puxlut's confirmed town status. Host are in a bit of a predicament with her. To remove her town status they need to send her the spore, that waste a night and they give the spore to a townie who everyone can trust. So I always suspected that they might try and get rid of her confirmed status, and was certainly hoping someone would agree with SebC.

Only one person did:

Originally Posted by squiggs96

Maybe Pux was the Anomaly. Maybe she's gotten the spore twice already, and the town got unlucky. We've already gotten unlucky when we lynched our Smuggler in activeStick.

I still think I was onto something with my crazy theory on post #925 http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...&postcount=925

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

I was even tempted to move off you to Oling so that there would be five people with two votes each. In the end devo was lynched, and it was Oling and starseed who started the votes for him. A few hours before the deadline there were 5 votes on mrk, and the same 2 on devo. You ended up being the 5th vote, enough for the deadline lynch.

Why didn't you then? Woulda coulda shoulda doesn't really do us any good here. I voted for devo to prevent a tie like the last round because we all know how badly those turn out.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

And who was it who started all the vote movement on Thursday night? Yup, that was me. It went from starseed being lynched to this at one point:

And that's good why exactly?

If the argument is that you saved Starseed, I think you're a bit early - he hasn't been revealed to be town just yet.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

To summarize my thoughts on the day:

Oling announces he had received the spore, but stated he was unaffected. He then passed it to Girly. Girly states she is not turned, so she hasn't received confirmation she's received the spore. There has been much discussion on whether she is turned, host, or unaffected town. Girly has offered to vote on where the spore will go if she actually has it. No one seems interested in doing this at all.

Oling and HG have led the charge to lynch Girly, with Oling being the first vote on her. Once we get to being one vote short of the hammer, Oling removes his vote and puts it on Timbo, referencing GGG's post as reason for his change.

I always find it interesting when the votes start coming off. Sometimes it means new logic or information has come up, sometimes it's the scum trying to move votes off of their own. I'm not sure what it is this time. By not hammering, the scum is at risk for having things not go their way (in Smash Bros not hammering me, which led to me getting a gun to kill one scum, leading to the voting out of another scum). If in this case Girly is scum or infected, by leaving her vulnerable she could have been hammered by anyone. It's a risky proposition either way. Now that two votes are needed to hammer, it's much less risky.

I still don't mind voting for Peanut, but I can be swayed to change. I get why people wouldn't follow, as my vote started the ball rolling towards activeStick. The weirdest part for me in that vote was HG15 voted for me, and then switched to voting for the person I was voting for in post #293. Shortly after devo unvotes for Girly, Timbo votes activeStick. active becomes the vote "leader" and the balls rolls until his unfortunate lynch.

Originally Posted by squiggs96

The reason I'd vote Girly is she seemed too calm on Day 1 when it was possibly her to be lynched. When HG15 asked her if she had anything else to say she replied with:



Now that we are on day 2, and she was 1 vote away from hammer, she still never panicked. Maybe that's her experience from last game coming through, or maybe it's her knowing that she will have the votes moved off of her.

The best argument for not lynching Girly is if you believe she's infected. We don't need to lynch her, as we can let the Agent take care of her. If I have the choice between lynching an infected or lynching someone that has the possibility of being a host, I'd prefer going after someone who could be a host. I'd prefer host hunting rather than spore stopping. If you believe Girly is a host, then obviously voting for her is the way to go.

Originally Posted by squiggs96

I'm interested to see who pulls a vote off when the total gets back to 8 or who lays the hammer.

Unvote

Vote GirlySports

Squiggs can you explain this for me. As far as I can tell you never actually say if you think Girly is a host, infected, or town. It seems like a lot of double speak, and not really any concrete opinion from you?

[Hockeyguy15]

Also I just have to say mrkajz, regardless of your alignment you are one lucky guy. You must be setting a mafia record for not being lynched.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Party Elephant

Why didn't you then? Woulda coulda shoulda doesn't really do us any good here. I voted for devo to prevent a tie like the last round because we all know how badly those turn out.

I don't get your response here at all. You tried to make it sound like I was only about having a focus on two people. I showed how I got the 12 votes over six people (my 1st post said over five, but it was six). It was still 3-2-2-2-2-1 at that point.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

And that's good why exactly?

If the argument is that you saved Starseed, I think you're a bit early - he hasn't been revealed to be town just yet.

My argument is not that I saved starseed. Once again, this is you trying to suggest things for me.

I asked if it was better to have two candidates or multiple here: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...postcount=1941

Bizarro replied with:

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I think it's better for the town, as long as we decide before deadline. The more voting momentum bandwagons that get started the more chances we have to see how people have voted and draw conclusions.

So I tried to have some fun on Thursday night and to get the votes scattered. Both were achieved.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Even if you want to take credit for the movement shift, which I'm not so sure I would agree with, the end result yesterday was still a townie dying. So I'm not sure what good you did (and I did no better, Devo22's blood is certainly on my hands).

Flesh out this idea better because I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Squiggs can you explain this for me. As far as I can tell you never actually say if you think Girly is a host, infected, or town. It seems like a lot of double speak, and not really any concrete opinion from you?

I don't think I had a concrete opinion. I flipped and flopped back and forth. At one point I leaned town. If you read the rest of the conversation after I voted I guessed host. At the time I voted for her it seemed like a foregone conclusion that she'd be lynched. At that point I was more interested in the voting patterns. My vote put Girly one away from lynch. If she was a host, and needed to be saved, it was going to be much more difficult with the next vote being the hammer. It can be done, such as devo having the opportunity to hammer starseed (unsure if host or not), and then being lynched himself.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

I don't think I had a concrete opinion. I flipped and flopped back and forth. At one point I leaned town. If you read the rest of the conversation after I voted I guessed host. At the time I voted for her it seemed like a foregone conclusion that she'd be lynched. At that point I was more interested in the voting patterns. My vote put Girly one away from lynch. If she was a host, and needed to be saved, it was going to be much more difficult with the next vote being the hammer. It can be done, such as devo having the opportunity to hammer starseed (unsure if host or not), and then being lynched himself.

Yeah I saw later that you said you thought she was a host, but the posts I quoted stood out to me since there was a lot of words without saying much. If you are a host it's a great way to post, except Girly called you on it and then you had to answer her.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Even if you want to take credit for the movement shift, which I'm not so sure I would agree with, the end result yesterday was still a townie dying. So I'm not sure what good you did (and I did no better, Devo22's blood is certainly on my hands).

Flesh out this idea better because I'm not sure what you're getting at.

So I get accused of wanting to narrow down the voting to two, but no credit for getting the votes scattered. Look at the votes before I made my Thursday post and all the movement that happened afterwards. That started because of me. If I don't post and start that, it doesn't happen. It was dead in here for two days because no one was posting. I changed that and scattered the votes.

The aim was to scatter the votes to make it tougher for hosts to hide and to see who was able to convince other to vote for their chosen candidate. The end result was definitely the work of you. You and starseed (who was almost lynched) started voting for devo. This got Pux and GGG on the train. The wheels were in motion and you directed the vote to lynching another townie. Not only is devo's blood on your hands, you were the one that stabbed him with the knife (metaphorically). The vote scatter lead to you organizing devo's lynch, and yet I become the top suspect. Somehow I'm getting used to this.