The average American woman now weighs 166 pounds — as much as a 1960s man

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Muta

Anxiously awaiting Huntingwhale's entrance into this thread.

Post #8.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Post #8.

Leaving satisfied.

[Sainters7]

Height isn't really the only factor here, as natural build makes a huge difference.

My step dad's the exact same height as me (a hair under 5'8"), but the guy's got shoulders like a brick. I've seen pics of him back in his 20s (he's all flub now), he said he was 180lbs then and he looked muscular and lean.

My frame is a lot slimmer, the heaviest I've ever been is about 175lbs. Looking at pics of me back then, I was legit chunky. You could see it in my face with developing squirrel cheeks, I had a beer gut too, and was experiencing some back problems at that weight.

166lbs certainly sounds on the chunky side for 5'6" (as does 195 for a man), but it depends on their natural frame just as much as their height.


Posted from Calgarypuck.com App for Android

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

The argument that eating healthy costs so much more than just junk food is basically bunk.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/pre...sts-1-50-more/



For a family of four, that works out to about $2K a year, and this is comparing what they call the "healthiest diets" to the "least healthy diets", implying there is some sort of in between that most people would likely eat (mostly healthy with some junk mixed in). I'd imagine the price difference is even less in those cases. For something that is so important to enjoying life in general (i.e. having a healthy body), I don't think that is a huge investment.

I think it's just another excuse and people like to trot out to rationalize their behaviour.

Counterpoint:

This costs $8.
http://kotaku.com/pizza-huts-hot-dog...rev-1712656226

Nobody should ever eat this. ever. But its cheap, and presumably loaded with calories.

[Devils'Advocate]

Dr. Yoni Freedhoff was asked to speak at the Senate Committee on Social Affairs. This is what he said in his presentation:

Good afternoon. My name is Yoni Freedhoff and I’m a physician, an Assistant Professor of Family Medicine at the University of Ottawa, and I have dedicated my professional career to the study and treatment of obesity. I'm very grateful for the invitation to speak with you today.

9 years ago I had the similar opportunity to speak with the House of Commons' Standing Committee on Health who were working on a report very much like the one you’ve been tasked to produce. Their 72 page report’s recommendations, though not necessarily describable as bold, did call for action. Now, nearly a decade later, while admirably we’re still talking about obesity in Canada, action has remained a rarity.

Some cling to the notion that obesity is a problem of personal responsibility, suggesting that somehow, over the course of the past 60 years, that not just Canada but the world as a whole, has suffered an epidemic loss of willpower. They suggest that consequent to the fact that on paper obesity can be prevented by the judicious use of forks and feet, that governments need not be involved in its prevention. Yet this flood of diet and weight related illness is poised to cripple Canada’s health care system, and to date, in responding to this flood, we’ve focused on education, on public health messaging campaigns, and on calls to action designed to spur conscious, individual change. Floods aren’t well treated by way of isolated, individual change, as swimming lessons, no matter how thoughtful, well-designed, or societally embraced, won’t stem rising tides, and even the strongest swimmers get tired. That doesn’t mean people shouldn’t learn how to swim or that we shouldn’t encourage them to do so, but when there’s a flood it’s a government’s responsibility to build levees, and when it comes to this flood, I’m not sure Canada’s bothered to fill even a single sandbag.

It’s important to recognize that no single sandbag can stop a flood. That fact is perhaps part of the problem as often that truth cripples action as it allows detractors to rightfully argue, “that sandbag won’t cure or prevent obesity”. And they’re absolutely correct in their criticism. Not only will single sandbags not stop floods, but also the nature of flooding is such that it is impossible to predict which of a levee’s sandbags will prove to be the most important ones. But that truth doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be filling sandbags.

There is no shortage of potential sandbags. The rise of obesity has been consequent to dozens, if not hundreds of changes we’ve made to our environment such that now, the default for the majority of the population is weight gain. People don’t choose to gain weight. Weight gain happens consequent to a world that requires each of us, if we want to eat healthfully, to actually go out of our way to do so. It’s a world where packages of ultra-processed foods laden with hyperpalatibility’s bet you can’t eat just one’s holy trinity of salt, sugar and fat are legally allowed to brag about the fact that they also happen to contain Vitamin D, or Omega-3s, or whole grains on the fronts of their packaging, where what our children are taught in schools that they shouldn’t be regularly eating is regularly provided to them in those same schools’ cafeterias and vending machines, where the food industry is allowed to market to children, where our Food Guide is non-evidence based and if followed, might well lead a person to gain weight, and where our nutrition fact panels are so confusing and unwieldy that our government has launched not one, but now two campaigns designed to help Canadians understand how to use them.

If we want to see change we need to re-engineer our Willy Wonkian food environment such that healthful becomes the default choice, and that hyperprocessed junk food needs to be actively sought out rather than not only actively avoid but also actively provided. Though there is no consensus as to which sandbags will have the greatest impact, or which should be filled first, the ones I believe would be both beneficial and within the purview of the federal government would include:

• Revising Canada’s Food Guide and mandating its regular reassessment
• Joining the rest of the G8 nations and establishing a national school food program that includes the integration of curriculum designed to teach children about nutrition, food and healthful cooking.
• Banning the marketing of all food to children.
• Mandating the provision of contextualized calories on menu boards of chain restaurants, coffee shops, movie theatres, etc.
• Effecting nutrition fact panel reform so as to utilize realistic and standardized serving sizes, decrease confusion and ambiguity, identify added sugars, and include whole package caloric information.
• Effecting front-of-package health claim reform so as to disallow the use of nutrient based health claims and promotions.
• Adopting a rigorous, engaging, and evidence-based national front of package nutrition guidance label (eg. The UK’s stoplight system and/or Nuval)
• Taxing sugar-sweetened beverages.
• Subsidizing fresh fruits and vegetables.

No one sandbag will stop a flood, but the longer we spend discussing but not filling sandbags, the worse this flood will become and the more havoc it will wreak. While it’s always a great time for discussion and debate, we need action, as the longer we continue to wait to actually do something, the greater the threat to Canadians’ health, and to health care as we know it.

[Caged Great]

Body frame does matter. I'm 6-3 215 and I only have about 10 lbs of excess fat. I have been training a bit lately and if I was to get in true athletic shape, I'd probably be 230-40 pounds. People have been getting physically larger since the 60's. My father is only 6-0 185, and all the people on my mother's side are/were short. It possibly has a lot to do with better access to nutrition during development?

[keratosis]

I like my wife just the way she is. Fortunately she likes me the way I am too.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Body frame does matter. I'm 6-3 215 and I only have about 10 lbs of excess fat. I have been training a bit lately and if I was to get in true athletic shape, I'd probably be 230-40 pounds. People have been getting physically larger since the 60's. My father is only 6-0 185, and all the people on my mother's side are/were short. It possibly has a lot to do with better access to nutrition during development?

Nah, as long as your ass is as wide as your shoulders your good to go!

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Dr. Yoni Freedhoff was asked to speak at the Senate Committee on Social Affairs. This is what he said in his presentation:

I'd say a lot of this would go a long way in helping. I know that since I started counting calories, it's hard in some places to get accurate information. I also think that if a lot of people say exactly how many calories and how much fat was in certain foods, they'd simply stop eating them.

Another big factor is that it's become ingrained in a lot of people that if they are watching TV or going to a movie, they NEED a snack. I know I've been guilty of this and still sometimes think of grabbing some chips or a pop for the sole reason of being in front of the TV.

Then there is the seemingly new culture of telling people that it is ok to be overweight. We don't need people making songs that say "don't worry about being big, people like that" or this "BBW" nonsense. I'm not saying go out of your way to degrade people, but being overweight is a serious health issue that is not ok.

[kipperiggy]

Yeesh I'm 5'6" and 160-163. I don't consider myself chunky but truly average. Top of my healthy range is 155 so not like I have much farther to get there.

[Barnet Flame]

A lot of the time, even when you try to do the right thing in the States you get undermined. In Miami, my wife ordered a salad. What she got was a congealed lump of crap bound together with what seemed to be half a jar of mayonnaise.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Then there is the seemingly new culture of telling people that it is ok to be overweight. We don't need people making songs that say "don't worry about being big, people like that" or this "BBW" nonsense. I'm not saying go out of your way to degrade people, but being overweight is a serious health issue that is not ok.

Uh-oh.

[btimbit]

Don't degrade, abuse or bully, but I agree.

I know it's an old cliche but why is it okay to degrade a drinker or smoker about the damage they're doing to themselves but if you say anything to an overweight person it's fat shaming and wrong.

Edit: And I don't blame every overweight person for it, I'd certainly agree that it's a lot more difficult to eat healthy nowadays what with all the cheap crappy food combined with how modified stuff is. But for some reason it's getting to the point where it isn't okay to talk about fat people like it's a negative thing.

And for the record I need to lose a good 10-15lbs myself:P

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Then there is the seemingly new culture of telling people that it is ok to be overweight. We don't need people making songs that say "don't worry about being big, people like that" or this "BBW" nonsense. I'm not saying go out of your way to degrade people, but being overweight is a serious health issue that is not ok.

Although there's a cultural element there, part of the argument stems from the definition of "overweight" which in medical circles is typically drawn from the body mass index. The BMI ranges were set (and reset) basically arbitrarily. Those in the overweight BMI category include many of society's fittest and healthiest (try running the Flames roster through a BMI calculation) and that group also tends to live as long and with less morbidity than those in the normal category.

Of course, there are lots of people who suffer from negative health consequences that correlate with high weight, but usually they're in the high "obese" range as BMI defines it. The idea that "overweight and obesity" is a plague is therefore misleading. The idea that unhealthy diets and lack of exercise is growing problem in Western society isn't. But any argument that starts with BMI stats as a foundation is on shaky ground.

As for the social movement to embrace body diversity, I see no problem with it so long as it accounts for health. If you eat well, exercise regularly, and otherwise take care of your body, who cares if you're a bit rounder. People are designed to come in all shapes and sizes. It's health, not weight or appearance that matters.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by T@T

Nah, as long as your ass is as wide as your shoulders your good to go!

Wow RNH has a hot mom.

[Devils'Advocate]

"But for some reason it's getting to the point where it isn't okay to talk about fat people like it's a negative thing."

Fat people are a negative thing?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Here is an interesting article from Calgary doctor Arya Sharma, world renowned obesity expert and one of the founders of the Canadian Obesity Network, a network of health care professionals specializing in the treatment of obesity:

The recent appointment of the Hon. Sarah Hoffman (NDP) to the post of Health Minister in Alberta has (as expected) prompted a wide range of remarks regarding her suitability for the job – not because of her qualifications as an administrator (these are uncontested) – but her size!
In a slurry of comments ranging from misguided misogynistic remarks (sadly, including by members of the former government) to outright personal insults, the social media frenzy around this topic is anything but unexpected. The general story line is that someone living with obesity, who is thus obviously “unhealthy”, is not qualified be a health minister.

Indeed, one letter writer in the Edmonton Journal likens putting someone living with obesity in this position, to appointing a health minister who smokes – a fatal (but common) misconception of what obesity actually is.

For one, smoking is a behaviour – living with obesity is not!

When you inhale the smoke of a cigarette you are doing something (a behaviour) – when you gain (or lose) weight, it is something your body does (whether you want it to or not).
This distinction is fundamental: when I stop smoking, I become a non-smoker – end of story!

When I try to lose weight, my body will do everything it possibly can to resist losing weight. My appetite will increase, my metabolic rate will slow down, my body temperature will decrease, my thyroid function will decrease, my sense of taste and smell will increase, as will my risk-taking behaviour and my susceptibilty to stress. All of these changes (often referred to as the “starvation response”) will work day-and-night to “sabotage” my efforts and in 95% of people who set out to lose weight, these mechanism will eventually win out – even years after starting on their diet.

Every person I know who has ever lost a considerable amount of weight and is keeping it off, describes this as a daily on-going struggle. They are well aware that even the slightest interruption to their routine, an illness, an injury, a new medication, even just relationship issues or financial stressors and – boom – their weight is back, whether they like it or not.
This is why the WHO, the FDA, the AMA and a growing number of health organisations around the world are now calling obesity a chronic disease, because sadly, we have yet to find a cure for this condition.

Despite what celebrity pundits and the weight-loss industry may want you to believe, there are no easy solutions and try as they may, most people with excess weight will have to fight hard simply not to get any heavier.

So for one, even if Sarah Hoffman wanted to lose a few pounds, the chances that she will keep them off on her own in the long term are slim (unless of course she happens to belong to the lucky 5%). If she is looking for medical treatment, even surgery, I wish her good luck trying to access those services here in Alberta – welcome to the waiting list!
The other assumption underlying the criticism of Minister Hoffman, is the notion that obesity is a direct reflection of someone’s health behaviours – i.e. eating too much junkfood or not exercising.

Believe me that I have seen many patients in my clinic, who rarely (if ever) touch junk food, who spend hours in the gym, and still weigh in at 350 lbs or more. There is (and has been for a long time) enough scientific evidence to support the fact that people vary remarkably in their susceptibility to weight gain (and weight loss). The amount of weight gained by eating exactly the same amount of excess calories can vary as much as 5-fold between individuals.

So for all we know, Sarah Hoffman (like most people living with excess weight) is already well-informed and concerned about her diet and I’d hardly be surprised if, despite her busy schedule, she does manage to squeeze in as much physical activity into her daily routine as she possibly can.

But, irrespective of all of the above, there are simply so many different causes of weight gain (from genetics, to mental health, to sleep deprivation, to stress, to eating norms and culture, adverse childhood experiences, to medications – even perhaps the bugs that happen to live in your gut), that judging someone about their health knowledge or behaviours by looking at their size is truly laughable.

Indeed, who better to have as a health minister, than someone living with a chronic disease? Would anyone seriously object to Sarah Hoffman’s appointment as Health Minister, were she living with diabetes, chronic kidney failure, coronary artery disease, HIV/AIDS, depression or for that matter cancer (even lung cancer)? The only real difference between obesity and any of the above conditions is that obesity is visible for anyone to see (and apparently fair game for anyone to comment on).

Whether or not Sarah Hoffman turns out to be a capable and competent health minister remains to be seen – I am certain that neither her success nor failure will have anything to do with her size. Perhaps it will take a Health Minister living with obesity, to finally create a health system, where people living with obesity are treated with compassion and respect and, most importantly, can find the help and treatments that they need.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

"

Fat people are a negative thing?

Yes they/we are a negative thing.

The last few years I have been constantly battling my weight.I am 6'1" my ideal weight is about 195. I got to as large as 263 last spring, and I was running out of breath on stairs, getting blood pressure induced head aches, my heart would race, I would sleep for hours, I was an unhealthy, lazy, slob. Full stop. No excuses.

I dumped 50 of the pounds and got close to my ideal weight, and felt great. Had energy, was way more active, my blood pressure was going down etc. I slipped up when I had a career change in January, and went back up to 230. I started to feel like crap... again. It was simple. Too much fast food and junk food. Period. My fault, not the worlds. I take full responsibility.

The last 3 weeks, I have been slowly converting to a vegetarian diet. I am at the point where I am just eating fish and veggies, and a milkshake every few days as a treat. In 3 weeks, have dropped to 10 pounds back down to 220, and am starting to feel good again.

This is the bottom line for the majority of obese people. It is a simple lack of discipline, and laziness. The cost to eat right and in moderation is not excessive by any means. You know how many bloody veggies you can buy for 20 bucks? How many cans of tuna, tilapia filets? A chicken breast is about $2/piece at costco. A fast food burger alone 5 dollars. I can eat 2 chicken breasts and a plate of broccoli with brown rice, be stuffed, and have consumed in or around 500 calories, for about $6. What does a combo meal cost nowadays? $8-10, I should know, I ate one every day for lunch for about 5 years. Tap water is frikkin free. The cost factor is absolute BS, and it really bugs me when I hear that from anyone but people in absolutely dire economic circumstances where a dollar box of Mac and Cheese and $1 bags of Great Value Chips is truly all they can afford. Walk through any Walmart, and look in pretty much any obese persons cart (mine included when I was eating like crap) and there are boxes and boxes of garbage junk. Swap that money for the produce section, you couldn't possibly eat it all.

This is what I am getting at. I have been that lazy, fast food junkie, and felt shame for it. The jabs from friends and family members shaming my weight when I was 260? Good. It motivated me to break a bad cycle. I slipped, but all it took was a buddy I hadn't seen in 5 months to ask me "When I was due" about a month back to kick my butt back into gear. I might screw up again, but hopefully someone will say something nasty again, to get me motivated.

Obesity is bad. It kills you prematurely. It is unequivocally a negative thing in every definition. I am lucky in the sense that I can drop weight relatively quick. I feel for those that can't. But some people need harsh wake up calls, and reminders of their mortality to take action. Warm, fluffy, terms like BBW and Husky man IMHO do not encourage action, they enable bad habits and acceptance for something your body is not designed to be.

My stance may be harsh, but sorry, almost anyone can lead a healthy lifestyle, and maintain a healthy weight if they are willing to give up lard, grease, copious amounts of red meat.

There is a guy on the BBmisc forum named 'wetbreasts' who has a sticky in the main forum. It is the only reason I visit that cesspool of a site. Much like you, he took action, and chose to break his cycle. That dude, is an inspiration to anyone, and is as real as it gets. He was almost 500 lbs 18 months ago, and now is under 300. No lap bands as he is in near poverty and can't afford it. No self pity. He is harsh as hell on himself. And has no issues with criticism, because he knows his life depends on it. Diet, exercise, and conversation has transformed this guy from someone who had fungus growing on him and had to feel the shame of showering with a garden hose outside his trailer once a month, to hitting the milestone and have the dignity, where he could actually fit in his own shower. More people need to follow suit. That shame was his motivation.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Not a comment on the state of the US system, but dam, if my wife was 166lbs and not pregnant with triplets, I'd be looking for a new wife prettttty quick. Mind you, she's shorter than average, but holy man that is quite large to be "average".

Atta boy. Love her until her appearance goes, then dump her sorry ass.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by pylon

Obesity is bad.

You will get no argument from me. My issue is when we go after the people.

The two very well respected doctors I have referenced here are working hard to fight obesity, not to fight obese people. In fact, Dr. Sharma lectures primary care doctors to change their language to say that patients "have obesity" rather than "are obese". As in "Patient Tom B. has had obesity since a young age." Because you "have cancer", you "have diabetes" ..... why treat the disease of obesity any different? Yes, treat the disease.... but don't make it a primary characteristic of the individual.

And you are preaching to the converted. I started a weight loss support group that meets at lunchtime at work. Since we started in February my group of 20 people has lost a net total of 200 pounds. Though the bulk of that is 2 people who have both lost 30 pounds.

[Devils'Advocate]

As for the other part of the post:
From Dr. Yoni Freedhoff's blog:
http://www.weightymatters.ca/2012/03...s-to-stop.html

So forgive me Ms. Allen, if I don't practice my stink eye, for if guilt, shame and name calling were useful in the generalized real world, then the real world would most assuredly be one hell of a skinny place as it currently has no shortage of guilt, shame and name calling for those with obesity.

From Dr. Sharma's blog:
http://www.drsharma.ca/do-shame-and-...-problem-worse

For those, who still think increasing social pressure on people with excess weight by emphasizing the many drawbacks of excess weight and by declaring it largely a matter of lifestyle “choice”, an article by Brenda Major and colleagues from the University of California, published in the Journal of Experimental Psychology, may prove a worthwhile read. In their experiments, the researchers randomly assigned women with a wide range of BMIs to read a news article about stigma faced by overweight individuals in the job market or a control article. Reading the article on weight stigma caused women who perceived themselves to be overweight (irrespective of their actual BMI), to consume more calories and feel less capable of controlling their eating than exposure to the non-stigmatizing article.

For every person you point to that can say that being ashamed of themselves made them change, I can point to two people that go home and EAT their shame. I know I did. For decades. In high school I was the fat kid that was taunted every day and to deal with the shame, I'd come home after school and shove food in my face. Sure that made me get more and more obese, but the way the brain typically deals with negative emotions is demand something that will give a quick release of dopamine. So comfort foods of pizza and pie were my answers. Would you mind finding me a few studies that show that fat shaming helps? Because from all the studies I have seen, it actually makes the situation far, far worse. And that has been my personal experience as well.

Another study:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3670560.html

In 2006 and again in 2010, a new study, led by psychologist Angelina Sutin at the Florida State University College of Medicine in Tallahassee, Fla., collected the body mass indexes of 6,157 Americans ages 50 and over who were either normal weight, overweight or obese, Today reported. The research team found that overweight people who faced weight discrimination were over two times more likely to become obese by the end of the study. Participants who were obese when the study began and had experienced weight discrimination were three times more likely to still be obese in 2010. "Rather than motivating individuals to lose weight, weight discrimination increases risk for obesity," Sutin summarized her findings.