Federal Politics 2015 Thread

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I also don't particularly want a PM who will cater to environmentalists, as they're generally pretty irrational. The way Rube phrased it (environmental interests over "big business") makes me want to hide behind the couch... I'm fine if you make the enforcement of environmental regulations a priority but that whole portion of the NDP identity makes me fairly nervous.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I also don't particularly want a PM who will cater to environmentalists, as they're generally pretty irrational. The way Rube phrased it (environmental interests over "big business") makes me want to hide behind the couch... I'm fine if you make the enforcement of environmental regulations a priority but that whole portion of the NDP identity makes me fairly nervous.

Well I kind of mostly mean not doing things like muzzling scientists, as well as designating certain lakes for dumping hazardous materials and then trying to cover it up.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I just don't see anything that is special about Trudeau other than the way he makes opposition voters tight in the pants.

Fence straddling on the right isn't working for them anymore. Their big tent is empty.

Me neither really, except that he seems like a nice guy.

But I think being a politician capable of leading a country is (and should be) a learning process. I would actually be more apprehensive about having a leader take power without experiencing some trials and tribulations along the way. Some time as the official opposition is often what builds leaders.

Getting rid of a party leader that fast is like firing the coach of an NHL team after one season. It usually takes a couple of seasons to figure things out and develop an identity. The Liberals can't expect to just find a readymade leader in their ranks. I think they need to develop one, and that takes time.

[Resolute 14]

The problem with Trudeau is that they brought him in as leader because of his name. If his name doesn't get him elected, what does Justin have?

In terms of the controversy over C-51, he's both defending his support and promising to modify it if elected. Whatever one thinks of Harper or Mulcair's respective ideologies, they are both far less likely to equivocate the way Trudeau does.

[nik-]

I'm pretty sure whoever does the Nenshi faces for the Calgary Sun is also working for the Conservatives. Some of these are pretty funny.

Spoiler!

Also, to the average voter, this is a winning message. Especially if they pare out the corporate qualifier and just focus on taxes. Other parties better step it up if they want to compete.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

In terms of the controversy over C-51, he's both defending his support and promising to modify it if elected. Whatever one thinks of Harper or Mulcair's respective ideologies, they are both far less likely to equivocate the way Trudeau does.

This. It was really predictable when he came out afterwards and said he'd modify things after the fact. The cynic in me would say the Liberals have a pretty rich tradition of promising to change or repeal certain PC policies during an election, only to completely change course once they're elected, so I'm a bit skeptical.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by rubecube

This. It was really predictable when he came out afterwards and said he'd modify things after the fact. The cynic in me would say the Liberals have a pretty rich tradition of promising to change or repeal certain PC policies during an election, only to completely change course once they're elected, so I'm a bit skeptical.

Maybe I am jaded, but I don't put a lot of stock into this phase of the campaign. All the leaders are desperately trying to figure out what they think people want to hear and are feeding it. Harper was historically good at it and Mulcair seems good at it (well, the NDP ideology lends itself to this portion of the campaign quite easily), while Trudeau seems to be struggling with it, but he still has his moments. What they actually do when they are in power is often quite different than what they preach. Harper for example, ran on platforms that included senate reform and transparency. It's what people wanted to hear at the time.

This is why I never vote on the politician (they are all scum IMO, just some are better at it than others). I pick the party that best reflects my personal ideological stance and then hope for the best.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by nik-

This one's my favorite.

"These tax breaks will benefit 4 million families!"

Which 4 million?

The ones that live here?


Or here?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The problem with Trudeau is that they brought him in as leader because of his name. If his name doesn't get him elected, what does Justin have?

In terms of the controversy over C-51, he's both defending his support and promising to modify it if elected. Whatever one thinks of Harper or Mulcair's respective ideologies, they are both far less likely to equivocate the way Trudeau does.

I keep hearing this "only brought him in for his name" comment and then I look and realise he is also the only one who has actually brought out any ideas in the last what...6 months? I mean you don't like it, but that policy release this week that included the end of the FPTP system amongst a number of other proposals is a significant idea. You might also recall he came out in favour of non-partisanship with the senate and removed the Liberal senators from the Liberal caucus.

I'm not surprised by your derision or dislike, but this doesn't seem like a guy who has no new ideas and nothing to offer. You might disagree with these things, but they're actually very interesting political proposals and policies. The senate move and resulting discussion did far more to move the entire senate discussion forward than anything Harper has done in the past decade for example.

[Resolute 14]

The NDP have championed eliminating FPTP for years, Slava. Are we really going to credit Justin for stealing an NDP policy plank to try and woo back voters who are abandoning him for the NDP?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The NDP have championed eliminating FPTP for years, Slava. Are we really going to credit Justin for stealing an NDP policy plank to try and woo back voters who are abandoning him for the NDP?

There was a lot more there than just that line though; have a read through it and you have to admit that this isn't just some guy trying to get elected on his name.

http://www.realchange.ca/

While I know that plank got the most press, the fact is there are a lot of ideas there and a lot of them are things that absolutely should be implemented. Its a bit disjointed, but bringing back the LT census, openness and transparency in spending accounts for example are simply must haves IMO.

[Jacks]

I hope they dump Trudeau after the election, I'd love to have an alternative to the Cons that I could vote for. Just give me a solid, smart leader with good economic policies and I'll give them a shot. Not some "rockstar" candidate who is a walking gaffe machine or someone who campaigns against Alberta to further themselves in Quebec.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I hope they dump Trudeau after the election, I'd love to have an alternative to the Cons that I could vote for. Just give me a solid, smart leader with good economic policies and I'll give them a shot. Not some "rockstar" candidate who is a walking gaffe machine or someone who campaigns against Alberta to further themselves in Quebec.

Its funny because Trudeau has probably campaigned more in Alberta in the past year than Harper has.

[Jacks]

What does that have to do with anything?
Just because he campaigns here doesn't take away the stupid things he's said elsewhere.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Slava

Its funny because Trudeau has probably campaigned more in Alberta in the past year than Harper has.

Yeah, I'm not a Trudeau guy but the idea that he's campaigning against Alberta is straight nonsense.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

What does that have to do with anything?
Just because he campaigns here doesn't take away the stupid things he's said elsewhere.

Can you give me some examples? I mean Harper lives here and that doesn't take away from the stupid things he's said elsewhere either!

[Jacks]

You want me to give examples of stupid things Trudeau has said?
Just Google it.

Edit: And for the record I wasn't just referring to Trudeau as campaigning against Alberta. Liberal leaders have been using us as a whipping boy for decades.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Jacks

You want me to give examples of stupid things Trudeau has said?
Just Google it.

Because you can't Google stupid things the Conservative brass and Harper have said? What a ridiculous post.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Slava

There was a lot more there than just that line though; have a read through it and you have to admit that this isn't just some guy trying to get elected on his name.

http://www.realchange.ca/

While I know that plank got the most press, the fact is there are a lot of ideas there and a lot of them are things that absolutely should be implemented. Its a bit disjointed, but bringing back the LT census, openness and transparency in spending accounts for example are simply must haves IMO.

Yes, and a lot of that boils down to "do the opposite of what the Conservatives did". Except the NDP already hold that position as well, and given how the C-51 vote did, they have more credibility than Justin does.

Looking at one policy you already brought up - the so-called non partisan senate. Starts with a shot at Harper and Mulcair (again, another "I'm the least bad" argument), then an irrelevant plug of unrelated topics, then the claim that "removing" Liberal senators means anything, then empty rhetoric.

"Independent leader's debates"? What the hell does that even mean?

The "More Free Votes" proposal is basically "free votes, except when Justin says otherwise", which isn't any different than present.

Etc.

I dunno man. Looking at that website, I'm not seeing much that just screams "ELECT ME!". Saving home mail delivery? Honestly, its worded such that the only reason Trudeau wants to restore it is because Canada Post opted to end it under a Conservative government.

[rubecube]

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/06...n_7598818.html

More embarrassing rhetoric from the Conservatives. Shades of Vic Toews.

Steven Blaney responded by attacking Voices-Voix’s credibility and, by extension, opposition parties, too.

“Why are the NDP and Liberals siding with terrorist organizations and organizations that are supporting them?” asked Blaney.