Men-only barber shop controversy

[FlamesAddiction]

I think with gyms, it is a little different because most of the people that go to them are members and are not technically customers. And from what I recall, there are different rules when it comes to businesses that sell memberships than ones that simply offer services. Ragged Ass Barbers could sell memberships instead and probably have their strict "men only" business model. I am not 100% sure on that though.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think with gyms, it is a little different because most of the people that go to them are members and are not technically customers. And from what I recall, there are different rules when it comes to businesses that sell memberships than ones that simply offer services. Ragged Ass Barbers could sell memberships instead and probably have their strict "men only" business model. I am not 100% sure on that though.

Augusta National (The masters golf club) says hello.

[Senator Clay Davis]

^That's America though. I'm pretty sure in Canada such restrictions are not allowed. In America though the way it works is private clubs are allowed to do basically whatever they want (outside criminal activity obviously); but a public business cannot discriminate like a private club. But again I think it works differently in Canada.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

^That's America though. I'm pretty sure in Canada such restrictions are not allowed. In America though the way it works is private clubs are allowed to do basically whatever they want (outside criminal activity obviously); but a public business cannot discriminate like a private club. But again I think it works differently in Canada.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/n...8-df800aecec38

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...rticle4503636/

Of course, private clubs are legally allowed to exclude on the basis of gender; health clubs and spas do it without raising concerns.

Now, whether or not it "should" be allowed is an argument definitely worth having. I read over the CHRC act and "membership" sounds really convoluted and I think the spirit of the act insists that you can't discriminate, there are loopholes that make it fairly easy to.



In the States, it sounds like the issue is hit and miss depending on the state: http://fitnessmarketing.com/2011/04/...iscrimination/

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Slava

I just don't need to hear about how every person of my gender can't possibly control themselves when we see a pretty girl or how they need this in order to protect themselves.

Where has anyone made that argument?

Its like when my friends and I want to play poker and drink beer. I'm sure women enjoy playing cards and drinking beer, and that's great, but we'd rather not have the wives there. It's not that there is anything to be protected from, we just plain prefer that.

In my experience this is has always been more of a "we don't want our wives and girlfriends there" thing than a "no women" thing.

[Yamer]

I have talked to several women that frequent both types of gyms depending on what is convenient. Most cite the preference of a women's only gym due to the personal experience of feeling uncomfortable at a regular gym. Either they sense or observe some leering or gazing, or they feel pressure to adhere to certain standards when in the presence of males.

They haven't really indicated a concern over assault, but I don't think that has really been brought up as an overwhelming problem of the situation in this thread.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Yamer

I have talked to several women that frequent both types of gyms depending on what is convenient. Most cite the preference of a women's only gym due to the personal experience of feeling uncomfortable at a regular gym. Either they sense or observe some leering or gazing, or they feel pressure to adhere to certain standards when in the presence of males.

They haven't really indicated a concern over assault, but I don't think that has really been brought up as an overwhelming problem of the situation in this thread.

Yeah, which is why I also said harassment. I know several women who workout at women's only gyms and quite a few of them mentioned dudes interrupting their workouts to hit on them as one of the reasons why. Others have spoken about the leering, body-shaming aspects of it, too. Either way, a women's only gym is by and large going to be a safer space for women from all of these elements, which is reasonable grounds for them to exist.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Oh good, #NotAllMen showed up (jokes). You can reasonably say you're reducing a woman's chances of being assaulted or harassed at the gym if you remove men from the equation. Anyways, all of this has been rehashed in prior pages of this thread so this is about as much time as I'm going to devote to it today.

Originally Posted by rubecube

Where has anyone made that argument?



In my experience this is has always been more of a "we don't want our wives and girlfriends there" thing than a "no women" thing.

You made that argument. That's the entire reason I started posting in this terrible thread.

Anyway, my posting was a mistake. I really don't care enough about this topic to keep reading and checking.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Slava

You made that argument. That's the entire reason I started posting in this terrible thread.

Anyway, my posting was a mistake. I really don't care enough about this topic to keep reading and checking.

How does saying women stand less chance of being assaulted in a situation with less men = all men assault women? You're the one who created that strawman.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by rubecube

How does saying women stand less chance of being assaulted in a situation with less men = all men assault women? You're the one who created that strawman.

I think he was taking your point to a rediculous extreme because it seemed rediculous to him.

We are talking about weather or not gender exclusive clubs and services are OK. Some of us brought light to the fact that there is a massive double standard in this area.

You started posting about weather or not women are at greater risk of being assault in coed gyms. Not on topic, you are probably right that getting rid of all the men everywhere will probably eliminate 95% of sexual assaults, but it seems to me that just isn't a realistic option.

What would retort have been if I had instead jokingly said, thank god my 7 year son can now join the Brownies, or a field hockey team. Would he have posed this great risk of violence to the girls. I know if your daughter wanted to join the Scouts or a boys hockey team there would be no problem.

There is clearly a double standard here the is relevant to the topic.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by #-3

I think he was taking your point to a rediculous extreme because it seemed rediculous to him.

We are talking about weather or not gender exclusive clubs and services are OK. Some of us brought light to the fact that there is a massive double standard in this area.

You started posting about weather or not women are at greater risk of being assault in coed gyms. Not on topic, you are probably right that getting rid of all the men everywhere will probably eliminate 95% of sexual assaults, but it seems to me that just isn't a realistic option.

What would retort have been if I had instead jokingly said, thank god my 7 year son can now join the Brownies, or a field hockey team. Would he have posed this great risk of violence to the girls. I know if your daughter wanted to join the Scouts or a boys hockey team there would be no problem.

There is clearly a double standard here the is relevant to the topic.

Explain to me what men are losing out on by not being able to join a women's only gym.

They can still work out, right? They just have to go to a different building to do so.

This woman wanted a specific men's haircut that very likely she would be unable to get elsewhere. That is why she insisted on being served by this business, she wanted a service that she could only get in this establishment.

A man can go to any gym and purchase a membership.

[SportsJunky]

Lady hairdressers don't know how to give a "men's" haircut? Witty, could you have done that style if this young lady asked you for it? I don't buy the idea that only a mens barber could have cut her hair. What's difficult about a men's haircut for any trained stylist? Should be the easiest cut they do.

This was about something else.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Lady hairdressers don't know how to give a "men's" haircut? Witty, could you have done that style if this young lady asked you for it? I don't buy the idea that only a men's barber could have cut her hair. What's difficult about a men's haircut for any trained stylist? Should be the easiest cut they do.

This was about something else.

I can indeed do that men's haircut, but it is highly specialized, and I only know how to do it because we also have a male barber on staff and I've spent the last two years watching and learning and practicing it. And there are still aspects of it that I'm not legally allowed to do, because certain styles like this involve the use of straight razors, which barbers are licensed for and stylists are not.

Like for example, a haircut like this, which is very popular right now and I'd imagine is along the lines of what she was asking for:



That particular style involves very intricate and specific clipper/straight razor work. General cosmetology courses (at least in the US, I can't speak for Canada here) cover only basic men's cutting/styling. This kind of a cut is taught to barbers, not stylists. There are some stylists who can do this--but they have to practice a lot and are very very few and far between and it's a crapshoot as to whether they actually know their stuff or are bluffing in order to get your money.

A barber is going to be taught these techniques in school, and a barber who specializes in this is going to be well trained and practiced, and that's who you're going to want to see. If these barbers have prided themselves on this kind of intricate work--there's a solid reason why she went there. They're likely the best at it, and thus she wanted to be sure she got it done right.