Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread

[Ozy_Flame]

Obama having to all but spell out the need for tighter gun legislation (IMO):

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0OY28U20150618

Obama, appearing somber as well as frustrated, said he has had to make statements like the one he made on Thursday too many times. Despite not having all the facts, it was clear that innocent people had been killed because someone had no trouble getting a gun, he said.

"Now is the time for mourning and for healing, but let's be clear: at some point we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries," Obama said.

"It doesn’t happen in other places with this kind of frequency. And it is in our power to do something about it. I say that recognizing the politics in this town foreclose a lot of those avenues right now. But it would be wrong for us not to acknowledge it," he said.

[Senator Clay Davis]

^ And he's predictably getting roasted by the right for politicizing a tragedy and for basically setting this all up for a government plan to take all guns away, which is why there's always conspiracy theories related to these shootings.

As always, the NRA loves these situations because it usually leads to a spike in gun sales because of fear that "they're coming for our guns". That's the worst ####ing part about these situations, it's the same cycle over and over and over again with seemingly no will for it to ever end. Americans are simply too addicted to guns to ever give them up.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I guess as a Canadian I can understand someone buying their son a rifle for hunting. I don't understand a father buying his son a .45 for his birthday. Those guns are for shooting humans. But here we are again talking about gun violence and what to do and as usual nothing will change in the U.S. and we'll see more of this stuff again, and probably soon.

This thread never seems to stay buried for long

[MacDaddy77]

Originally Posted by PIMking

jeesh what the hell is wrong with people?

I dont get it, I really dont understand why or how someone could have so much hate to go into a church and kill innocent people based on the color of their skin? Birmingham had the church bombings and this scumbag does this?

I dont like the world we live in.

I find it disgusting however this is the world we have always lived in. Since the beginning of time people have been persecuted and murdered for being different. The most significant difference in the last 20 years is you are immediately aware of it happening.

What I find ALMOST as disgusting as the act itself are the media and people that are trying to make money of tragedies by writing sensationalist stories about the perpetrator and ignoring the victims.

there has been a lot of growth in the world when it come to acceptance, however I can never see a time that things like this wouldn't happen.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

So I wonder if we'll see this labelled as what it actually is: Terrorism. Yes it's a hate crime as well but it's also an act design specifically to terrorise an entire race.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

To me its a terrorism related charge. Its no different then the idiots that went and wanted to shoot up the cartoon contest.

He had a political or race based motive, it was a random shooting based on no more then terrorizing.

But I doubt that he comes in alive.

So we can keep all of the "SJW outrage" in one place.

http://mic.com/articles/120925/one-t...hurch-shooting

But yeah, I do wonder if any media member or politician will have the fortitude to call it terrorism.

[llwhiteoutll]

Everyone playing the "ban guns" card, can you please explain how making something illegal will stop people from using it illegally.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Everyone playing the "ban guns" card, can you please explain how making something illegal will stop people from using it illegally.

Virtually no one is suggesting banning guns. Simply that it shouldn't be easier to get a gun than it is to get help for mental health. Gun laws in America are preposterous, they won't even change it to have universal background checks. And usually the "solution" we hear rather than legislation is to allow more guns to be had in more places. It's pretty ####ed up don't you think?

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Everyone playing the "ban guns" card, can you please explain how making something illegal will stop people from using it illegally.

It won't.

But it will much more difficult for people to get them legally then use them illegally.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Virtually no one is suggesting banning guns. Simply that it shouldn't be easier to get a gun than it is to get help for mental health. Gun laws in America are preposterous, they won't even change it to have universal background checks. And usually the "solution" we hear rather than legislation is to allow more guns to be had in more places. It's pretty ####ed up don't you think?

The problem with catch all statements is that there is no single set of US gun laws. It is state dependent and it even get broken down to the county level in terms of carry.

People get the idea that in all US states you can walk into a store and walk out the next minute with a gun and no background check. Seldom do people actually research the individual cases before saying that more gun control is needed.

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

It won't.

But it will much more difficult for people to get them legally then use them illegally.

Genuinely curious to see the statistics on what percent or number of legally acquired firearms eventually end up being used in the commission of a crime by the lawful owner.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

The problem with catch all statements is that there is no single set of US gun laws. It is state dependent and it even get broken down to the county level in terms of carry.

People get the idea that in all US states you can walk into a store and walk out the next minute with a gun and no background check. Seldom do people actually research the individual cases before saying that more gun control is needed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_la...tates_by_state

Agreed they are all over the map, but the majority of them are, IMO, lax.

Genuinely curious to see the statistics on what percent or number of legally acquired firearms eventually end up being used in the commission of a crime by the lawful owner.

His comment was about the proliferation of weapons in Americian society, at least that is how I read it.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

The problem with catch all statements is that there is no single set of US gun laws. It is state dependent and it even get broken down to the county level in terms of carry.

People get the idea that in all US states you can walk into a store and walk out the next minute with a gun and no background check. Seldom do people actually research the individual cases before saying that more gun control is needed.



Genuinely curious to see the statistics on what percent or number of legally acquired firearms eventually end up being used in the commission of a crime by the lawful owner.

"Advanced" countries with loose gun laws: USA, Switzerland

"Advanced" countries with out of whack gun death rates: USA, Switzerland

But yeah, there is no way gun control works. Illegal fire arms. Rabble rabble.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

It won't.

But it will much more difficult for people to get them legally then use them illegally.

I would argue that if you made it more difficult for these people to get guns illegally that the underground gun markets in the States would just get busier.

I'm not saying open access to guns or anything stupid like that. But the bottom line is that there are only three ways to fix this

1) Break America's gun culture obsession. I don't know how you can do that without changing the constitution and the right to bear arms.

2) Up the punishment for violent crimes involving fire arms. You might as well remove unstable elements from the mix.

3) Go after the illegal gun's, We know that countries like China and others make a fortune from gun smuggling. Increase border patrols and doc controls.

4) Shut down gun shows where people can buy weapons and ammunition on the spot.

[Old Yeller]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Genuinely curious to see the statistics on what percent or number of legally acquired firearms eventually end up being used in the commission of a crime by the lawful owner.

This isn't exactly answering what you're asking, partly because the NRA prevents any well funded studies on national gun ownership rates because they've got congressional nuts in a vice. Consequently no really good data exists on national gun ownership rates.

However there have been numerous studies/tests that prove direct correlation between higher gun ownership rates and higher homicide rates. Obviously that's not cause/effect as economic, racial, geographic factors would have an effect, but more guns = more murders is a proven relationship and it's not a weak one.

[CaptainCrunch]

Just some stats, I'll warn you that these are from 95, but they come from the Dept of Justice

According to the 1991 Survey of
State Prison Inmates, among those
inmates who possessed a handgun,
9% had acquired it through theft, and
28% had acquired it through an illegal
market such as a drug dealer or fence.
Of all inmates, 10% had stolen at least
one gun, and 11% had sold or traded

stolen guns.

Studies of adult and juvenile offenders
that the Virginia Department of
Criminal Justice Services conducted
in 1992 and 1993 found that 15% of
the adult offenders and 19% of the juvenile
offenders had stolen guns; 16%
of the adults and 24% of the juveniles
had kept a stolen gun; and 20% of the
adults and 30% of the juveniles had
sold or traded a stolen gun.

Traced guns come from many countries
across the globe. However, 78%
of the guns that were traced in 1994
originated in the United States and
most of the rest were from

¾

Brazil (5%)
Germany (3%)
China (3%)
Austria (3%)
Italy (2%)
Spain (2%).

From a sample of juvenile inmates
in four States, Sheley and Wright
found that more than 50% had stolen
a gun at least once in their lives and
24% had stolen their most recently obtained
handgun. They concluded that
theft and burglary were the original, not
always the proximate, source of many

guns acquired by the juveniles.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF

[CaptainCrunch]

in 2013 there were 290,000 Firearms related crimes in the States.

Out of that something like 5000 were committed by legally obtained fire arms.

That's from the National Crime Victimization survey in 2013

[Table 5]

If the killing of 20 toddlers doesn't convince America to change it's thinking and policies about guns, absolutely nothing will.

[shermanator]

Anthony Breznican‏@Breznican14h14 hours ago
14 years after one idiot sets his shoe on fire, we're still stripping down at airports. An epidemic of mass shootings...? We change nothing.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

in 2013 there were 290,000 Firearms related crimes in the States.

Out of that something like 5000 were committed by legally obtained fire arms.

That's from the National Crime Victimization survey in 2013

I would hazard a guess almost all guns used in any crimes were legally purchased somewhere, then sold, stolen, lost, generally misplaced until some wack doodle decides to punish their wife/boss/neighbour/dark guy etc etc.

The reality is very very few people are sane enough to be trusted with a gun. Still it's America, they'll spend trillions to fight ISis when smith and Wesson has killed more Americans than the third riech

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The reality is very very few people are sane enough to be trusted with a gun. Still it's America, they'll spend trillions to fight ISis when smith and Wesson has killed more Americans than the third riech

That's because many Americans are super NIMBYs. They love to keep you miles away from their yard by from treading on them with speeches about freedom and the right to a pair of bear arms, but they also enjoy going to their neighbors house and tell them what they're allowed (or not allowed) to have in their backyard.

[FlamesAddiction]

Some the reporting the media is doing on this seems really irresponsible.

For example, CBC is reporting this:

Roof and his older sister, Amber, lived part of the time with their father and the father's wife, Paige, until Ben and Paige divorced.

Amber Roof, 27, is engaged to be married and a profile on TheKnot.com shows her wedding is scheduled for Sunday in Lexington, South Carolina.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/dylann-...pect-1.3118834

Isn't that just inviting retribution?