[Rumour] Friedman: Flames aggressive in trade market. Getting calls on Hudler.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, here's hoping Engelland can handle that 16-20 minutes a game and with a mobile partner he may be able to. I look at it in much the same way as the forwards being able to roll 4 lines. If we can roll our 3 defence pairings while giving some the special teams times and maybe extra in the last minutes of a close game, we'll save on the wear and tear of our top defencemen.

If Engelland is playing more than 12 minutes a night all season we will be picking in the top 5. He's ridiculously brutal.

[Hackey]

Engelland played over 20 minutes a game throughout the playoffs and we won a series.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Engelland played over 20 minutes a game throughout the playoffs and we won a series.

Not to mention the regular season games after Giordano's injury.

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by heep223

Stajan comes to mind. Gio, Wideman.

Which of those has been to the SCF ?

[icecube]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Engelland played over 20 minutes a game throughout the playoffs and we won a series.

Cheerio- "ummm... Hey, what's that over there?!!"

*leaves thread sprinting in the other direction*

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

But that is not a fact. It would only point to the lack of depth if there were so few centres on the roster that the team was forced to use a converted winger.

Just because you can list the names of players who lined up at centre in that given time period doesn't mean we had quality depth at that position.

Again, I'm speaking to the fact that during Iginla's prime, we lacked anything close to an elite top line Centre. We had instances where a very good second line centre was playing with him, but in those cases the depth down the middle was terrible beyond that, and a key reason as to why the team never advanced in the playoffs. The depth at centre was abysmal.

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Now, if you were to argue that the Flames should have paid Cammalleri the big bucks and not gone after Bouwmeester, I would be prepared to hear you; but it would be a tough argument to make, given that he never again approached his '08-09 numbers. If you were to argue that they should have gone some other UFA forward (ideally a centre), I would be prepared to hear that; but you would have to specify some players that the team could have acquired at that time. Instead, you seem to be looking at the numbers in the abstract and not at the players who actually were available at the time; and you have yet to explain why the same group of centres that was adequate in '08-09 was suddenly pitiful in '09-10.

Who wins a cup with "adequate" centres? It was never going to happen with Lankow and Jokenin. The entire time Ollie was here we were hoping we'd see shades of what he was with the Panthers, but he was much closer to what we saw in recent years than anything resembling that. All of those years featured a team lead by stellar goaltending, an good, expensive blue-line and an offense lead by an elite power-forward RW with next to no depth down the middle.

It's really difficult to say what could have been done in hindsight. There were rumours we could have packaged a young Regehr and other assets for Joe Thornton. We could have looked to draft a centre in place of Phaneuf in that deep draft. Instead of trying to put together the Team Canada-esque blue-line perhaps Sutter could have shopped Phaneuf around a year prior to when he actually did to look at obtaining a true number one centre.

I don't have the answer, I'm simply pointing out it was a problem, and a big one. The centre depth was terrible during that time, and when you're looking at options like trying David Moss up there or inserting Jamie Lundmark to try and shake things up, you know that problem was sticking out like a sore thumb. Again, not a difficult concept.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Personally I think we should keep Jiri and hopefully be able to offer him a three year contract that both parties find amenable. He's not only a great mentor and a productive player. He's one of the core leaders of this team and has shown no end of the Hard Work Ethic™ this team identity has become.

My 0.85 cents cause 2 Cents just ain't worth what it used to be.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Engelland played over 20 minutes a game throughout the playoffs and we won a series.

That's correct. What did he contribute other than holding Brodie back? He can't break the puck out which killed us in the Anaheim series. He's not a horrible #6 but if you watch how teams defend the breakout with Brodie and Gio or Brodie and Schlemko vs how they defend Brodie and Engelland it's night and day. His breakout passes are usually either icing or on the other teams stick for a counter attack. I would love to hear what you think he brings to the table?

We won 1 playoff series against arguably the worst or 2nd worst team in the playoffs. Deryk Engelland is not a good defenceman and he would be a #6 at best on a cup contender.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by icecube

Cheerio- "ummm... Hey, what's that over there?!!"

*leaves thread sprinting in the other direction*

Wasn't planning on spending my night staring at a computer screen waiting to discuss the negatives of Deryk Engelland. And there is no mailbox to alert you of when someone replies to your post. Please enlighten me about the greatness that is Deryk Engelland

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

Please enlighten me about the greatness that is Deryk Engelland

It is at this point (in recent history) that I have never been more proud to be a Flames fan.

[Jacks]

I've been a critic of Engelland and his terrible contract but watching him pound 2 divers at once was pretty amazing.

[Azhouse]

He can hold his own and has more value for his contract than say a...Nikitin.

[Mattman]

For Treliving to trade Hudler it would need to be pure over kill.

Hudler was top 10 in points and worked magic with our kids. Seriously if he is going it will have to be a 1st, Top 6 winger (better upside than D.Jones), and a B+ prospect.
Or even a 1st, and an A level prospect.

Hudler did not get lucky with last season. It wasn't luck that got the Flames to the second round of the playoffs. Anyone that thinks Flames players had a lucky season are clearly butthurt Canucks fans.

But seriously you can go both ways on a Hudler deal.

Trade him- get an overpayment and build onto the young core with players of Monahan/Brodie caliber

Keep him- his wicked play helps our younger studs turn into offensive wizards themselves

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I've been a critic of Engelland and his terrible contract but watching him pound 2 divers at once was pretty amazing.

And let's not forget that there was footage of him telling the Canucks bench he would fight FIVE of them at once during the next game.

[mile]

Originally Posted by Azhouse

It is at this point (in recent history) that I have never been more proud to be a Flames fan.

G.O.A.T.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

Please enlighten me about the greatness that is Deryk Engelland

He is not Chris Butler. So there is that.

Seriously though. Don't underestimate the impact of the Flames rebuilding the bottom end on D last summer

O'Brien, Smith, Butler Out
Engelland, Diaz In

Made a big difference on the ice. I also thought that Schlemko was an upgrade on Smid. Right now the Flames D is the strongest it has been in years.

[jessnuts]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

My 0.85 cents cause 2 Cents just ain't worth what it used to be.

I'm going to nitpick and point out that you just offered us less than 50 cents on the dollar...and, as you pointed out, that's not even accounting for inflation! I demand at least 1 cent extra for inflation. 3 cents at least!



just joshing

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

Wasn't planning on spending my night staring at a computer screen waiting to discuss the negatives of Deryk Engelland. And there is no mailbox to alert you of when someone replies to your post. Please enlighten me about the greatness that is Deryk Engelland

You act like he f***ed your wife or something...he's not that bad and by all accounts has great character.

[HOWITZER]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

That's correct. What did he contribute other than holding Brodie back? He can't break the puck out which killed us in the Anaheim series. He's not a horrible #6 but if you watch how teams defend the breakout with Brodie and Gio or Brodie and Schlemko vs how they defend Brodie and Engelland it's night and day. His breakout passes are usually either icing or on the other teams stick for a counter attack. I would love to hear what you think he brings to the table?

We won 1 playoff series against arguably the worst or 2nd worst team in the playoffs. Deryk Engelland is not a good defenceman and he would be a #6 at best on a cup contender.

You do realize that it's not as if the Flames had much of a choice in the matter right? Giordano gets hurt and you need to call on the best players you have remaining to fill the hole. Were you expecting that Engelland would just turn into superman and be a duplicate of Giordano? Engelland brings different skills than Gio, Brodie, Wideman, etc.. He was placed in a position after Gio's injury that required him to learn new skills and play a different style. I think he did a fantastic job and learned quite quickly, which is a highly regarded skill in coaching.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

What did he contribute other than holding Brodie back?

I wouldn't say he held Brodie back at all. If anything, Brodie new that he had a man back as England didn't ever really join the rush and it allowed Brodie to play his style of game more. Brodie also made England a lot better. Of the options we had, it was the best and it worked out really well. When those 2 were on the ice, there wasn't really a fear that you had a bottom pairing on. They plaid really well for a second pairing. The only way England hurt the team by playing with Brodie is because he wasn't available to play on the bottom pairing. England is a guy I'm glad the Flames have on the bottom pairing, he's a character guy, stands up for the team and literally took on 2 guys at the same time during the playoffs. Management signed him to the deal he's on because they thought he was worth it. They haven't come out and said anything negative about him, if anything there's been more positives about him said by the coaching staff and management.