2015 NHL Draft

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by azzarish

I disagree with Button there quite significantly. There is no way Konecny is the 33rd best player in this draft.

And I disagree that the Flames wouldn't draft him unless he available in the 2nd round. He could easily have gone top 10 had he been a little bit bigger.

I have a very good feeling about him. He fits in to our team philosophy perfectly, and would be a really good NHL player. Nobody can predict how a prospect will pan out but if the Flames drafted him I personally believe they would have struck gold.

And there you go. Doesn't mean he is the 33rd best player, but the 33rd best NHL PROSPECT, given the size and injury issues mentioned above. If Monahan had been 5'9" instead of 6'2"...

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Do people actually belive this?

That the Oilers draft from Youtube? I think so. Or what was the question?

[Roof-Daddy]

He's referring to the Craig's list feeds off Tod's/Flames list comments.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

He's referring to the Craig's list feeds off Tod's/Flames list comments.

Yes, I know. Given their shared heritage (particularly that both learned at the knee of Jack), I take it as a better than average hint. I will be very interested to see if Boeser is available at 15...

[azzarish]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

And there you go. Doesn't mean he is the 33rd best player, but the 33rd best NHL PROSPECT, given the size and injury issues mentioned above. If Monahan had been 5'9" instead of 6'2"...

Same thing applies. He is not the 33rd best NHL prospect as far as I'm concerned. And there is quite a bit of difference in drafting him 15 and him being a potential top 10 pick, than there is of him being the 33rd best NHL prospect. We're talking about potentially going 5 spots higher, but Button has him 18 spots lower.

Anyway, the core point is that I think he's better than where Button has him, much better. If you disagree then you're perfectly entitled to, but I don't have to agree with Button.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Outsider Sports mock draft podcast. Good listen

http://ostalk.podbean.com/mf/web/zj9b6w/OST111.m4a

No way Crouse falls as far as they have him. I don't think there's any chance he's there at 15.

[FlamesAddiction]

Crouse is interesting. He seems to have slid down a lot of the rankings, but it doesn't sound like it is because he stumbled, but rather that other players vaulted up.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Crouse is interesting. He seems to have slid down a lot of the rankings, but it doesn't sound like it is because he stumbled, but rather that other players vaulted up.

I don't even think its that. I think its more that he's the type of player that some scouts will really covet and other scouts won't want as bad. Everybody has biases towards certain types of players and Crouse is going to appeal to the scouts who like big, power forwards who can be complimentary players. He's not going to appeal to the scouts who focus on pure puck skills.

Big power forwards are a rare commodity and he won't wait too long on draft day IMO. I don't think there's any chance he falls out of the top 12. Wouldn't surprise me if he was the type of player the Flames would try to trade up to get since we know Treliving and Burke ideally would like to add skilled size to the Flames.

[BrownDrake]

Crouse is all size and potential. He is probably the only "project" prospect in the top 10 or 15 on most rankings. If he is 20 pounds lighter and 2" shorter he is a 15 to 30 pick, if he is 4 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter he quite possibly doesn't get drafted in the first 4 rounds.

How is his skating - needs to improve, how is his agility and puck handling skills - need to improve.

If he can improve in many areas he might be a top 6 forward. I am a fan of big and heavy skilled players but they are tough to project. I think you take the skilled player and pass on him in the top 15 to 20 of a draft class like this.

[codynw]

I want nothing to do with Crouse. His offense is mediocre compared to other forwards ranked around him. If he was 6'0" and 185 pounds with those same numbers he wouldn't even be drafted in the first round.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by codynw

I want nothing to do with Crouse. His offense is mediocre compared to other forwards ranked around him. If he was 6'0" and 185 pounds with those same numbers he wouldn't even be drafted in the first round.

Exactly how I feel about Zacha - "limited creativity" scares the bejebus out of me. He just reminds me so much of Bonk.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by BrownDrake

Crouse is all size and potential. He is probably the only "project" prospect in the top 10 or 15 on most rankings. If he is 20 pounds lighter and 2" shorter he is a 15 to 30 pick, if he is 4 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter he quite possibly doesn't get drafted in the first 4 rounds.

How is his skating - needs to improve, how is his agility and puck handling skills - need to improve.

If he can improve in many areas he might be a top 6 forward. I am a fan of big and heavy skilled players but they are tough to project. I think you take the skilled player and pass on him in the top 15 to 20 of a draft class like this.

Here is a quote from FC about Crouse, "The big bodied player skates well, with no huge amount of speed, but exceptional stability; once he gets up to speed he is incredibly difficult to stop or angle off. Crouse does have a powerful stride that gets him moving and generates solid speed levels for his size. Moves well with the puck, does not slow down at all, and makes it near impossible for opposing players to knock him off it or strip him"

Doesn't sound like skating is a big issue with him.

Powerforwards often don't put as gaudy offensive numbers up. Doesn't mean they aren't valuable and rare commodities. Lucic put up 19 points in 60 games in his draft year. Who wouldn't want him now?

One thing some fans don't seem to understand is that having size and strength AND using it effectively to shield the puck, bowl over opponents, dominate on the cycle is a skill. It's not like undressing a defenseman 1 on 1 but it's a valuable skill that can help a line generate offence off the cycle. To say Crouse is unskilled would be wrong.

Would fans want another Ferland? Cause that's the type of player Crouse sounds like to me. Flames have been missing power forwards for years, arguably since Simon. A lot of the successful teams in the league have players like that, especially in our division. Crouse would be able to physically match up against players like Getzlaf, Perry, Maroon, King, Nolan, whereas the majority of our team is physically dominated by those types of players.

I'm not saying we have to draft a power forward but we're definitely one of the teams interested in that type of player. Would it surprise me if we traded up to draft Crouse? Not at all. Would it surprise me if we stayed pat and took a smaller guy like Konecny or Merkley? Nope. I think that mock draft was off base having Crouse drop out of the top 12.

[dammage79]

Yep, that mock essentially replaced Crouse with Guryanov. Even then, I would think Crouse gets snatched up by L.A or Boston.

Konecny ended up where? 8-10?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Exactly how I feel about Zacha - "limited creativity" scares the bejebus out of me. He just reminds me so much of Bonk.

Zero chance Zacha is there at 15 IMO. Some teams really like him I suspect. Opinions are varied, some see him as a future winger, some as a centre. The McKeens guy on the Fan960 the other day saw him as close in upside to Strome. Liked his skating much more than Strome's, his competitiveness and his two-way game. Strome only had the edge in offensive upside according to that scout.

Big guy with size, skating and skill who plays a power style. He won't last long.

[CliffFletcher]

I wouldn't be surprised if Crouse isn't drafted in the top 10. However, I would be very surprised if he's passed up by every team from 11 to 14, when the consensus seems to be that there's a lower tier of players after 10. I just can't see both LA and Boston passing on him.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by azzarish

Same thing applies. He is not the 33rd best NHL prospect as far as I'm concerned. And there is quite a bit of difference in drafting him 15 and him being a potential top 10 pick, than there is of him being the 33rd best NHL prospect. We're talking about potentially going 5 spots higher, but Button has him 18 spots lower.

Anyway, the core point is that I think he's better than where Button has him, much better. If you disagree then you're perfectly entitled to, but I don't have to agree with Button.

Sure, but I will always take Button's opinion over yours. It's all about projecting 18 year-old kids. Who knows how it will play out? I think Larsson has a chance to be the best defenseman in this draft, but the probability of that is not high. Button's opinion is an educated guess, just like yours - he just has a much higher chance of being right than you do...

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Zero chance Zacha is there at 15 IMO. Some teams really like him I suspect. Opinions are varied, some see him as a future winger, some as a centre. The McKeens guy on the Fan960 the other day saw him as close in upside to Strome. Liked his skating much more than Strome's, his competitiveness and his two-way game. Strome only had the edge in offensive upside according to that scout.

Big guy with size, skating and skill who plays a power style. He won't last long.

Oh, I think there is ~0% chance he slips to us. And I am kind of glad. But, of course, he could turn out to be the best player.

[FlamesAddiction]

This is where scouts earn their money the most. It's easy for me to look as stats and figure out which players are the most talented at their level, but it is another to look at a player and try to figure out which ones have the most potential for growth or have skills that they think the player can transfer to the professional level more easily.

It seems that some scouts really feel that Crouse has the HIQ, motivation, and physical attributes to better translate his abilities to the NHL than some players that might have more favourable stats. As a simple fan, I consider myself reasonably knowledgeable, but I am pretty clueless about the finer nature of scouting. I have faith that people know what they are talking about.

There are players from junior that score at a PPG pace or higher, but never manage to take their game to the next level, but then there are modest 20 goal scorers that manage to bring that same level of production to the NHL. I know that is pointing out the obvious, but it is always impressive to me to see when a scout can identify the latter players.

[ForeverFlameFan]

If Crouse dropped to 15, I'm pretty sure management takes him regardless of his CHL stats.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

After having digested more draft stuff in the past few weeks here's my attempt to predict what range of players might be available.

A few comments to start.

Zacha - I know a bunch of CPers probably bought FC and they have Zacha at #14. But Bob Mackenzie who does more of a composite list has Zacha at #6 and that indicates to me that NHL team scouts think a lot more highly of Zacha than some of the independent rankings do.

Probable locks for top 8 - McDavid, Eichel, Marner, Hanifin, Strome, Provorov
Top will likely be filled out by four of the following - Zacha, Crouse, Barzal, Rantanen, Werenski and Connor.
So IMO all those 12 players have very little chance of falling to us at #15.
Other candidates to go top 15 include Meier, Zboril, Roy, Konecny, Merkley, White, Chabot, Carlo, Eriksson Ek, Svechnikov, Bittner, Boeser

It is likely we'll have a choice of several of that last grouping. It gets so hard to predict after the first 12 or so that we have no idea who exactly will be there.

Anyone see it different?