Justin Trudeau vows to end 1st-past-the-post voting in platform speech

[taco.vidal]

First-past-the-post has long been viewed as the primary culprit behind declining turnout, contributing to Canadians’ belief that their votes don’t count.

Trudeau personally favours replacing it with preferential balloting, in which voters rank their first, second, third and subsequent choices. If no candidate receives an absolute majority on the first ballot, the last-place candidate is eliminated and his or her supporters’ second-choice votes are counted. That continues until one candidate receives over 50 per cent.

However, Trudeau has also said he’s willing to consider proportional representation, a more complex reform for which there are a variety of possible models. Essentially, it involves electing multiple representatives for each constituency, with the seats divvied up in proportion to the share of votes won by each party in each riding.

Others are new or build upon previous commitments. Among other things, Trudeau promised a Liberal government would:

• Reform question period in the House of Commons so that one day each week would be devoted solely to grilling the prime minister.
  
• Impose spending limits on political parties between elections, not just during election campaigns.
  
• Appoint an equal number of men and women to cabinet and adopt a government-wide appointment policy to ensure gender parity and greater representation of aboriginal people and other minorities.
  
• Create performance standards for services offered by the federal government, complete with streamlined application processes, reduced wait times and money-back guarantees.
  
• Create individualized, secure online accounts for Canadians who want to access all their government benefits and review key documents.
  
• Perhaps the most ambitious promise, however, is Trudeau’s vow to do away with first-past-the-post (FPTP) in time for the next election.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...-next-election

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I'd prefer a mixed member plurality. Preferential balloting is good for NDP and Libs, bad for conservatives.

Reform question period in the House of Commons so that one day each week would be devoted solely to grilling the prime minister.

Well that's dumb.

Appoint an equal number of men and women to cabinet and adopt a government-wide appointment policy to ensure gender parity and greater representation of aboriginal people and other minorities.

And even if I were going to vote for him before I'd vote against solely based on this. Quotas? Epic white knight complex you've got there bud.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I'd prefer a mixed member plurality. Preferential balloting is good for NDP and Libs, bad for conservatives.

Well that's dumb.

And even if I were going to vote for him before I'd vote against solely based on this. Quotas? Epic white knight complex you've got there bud.

Why is preferential voting bad for one party in particular? Could it be that they've poisoned themselves so badly that they won't be those voters second choice? If so, they've created their own problem there. I don't see how a voting system favours any party though.

I have come around a lot on the quotas personally. Being male I just think we don't appreciate the difficulty and discrimination that women feel. Its pretty easy as a white male to look and say "we don't need these things to even it out" but then we do continually see less representation by women and these minority groups.

[Ashartus]

I would think historically preferential voting would favour the Liberals, which may be why they support it (not saying it's a bad idea, but most political parties aren't going to push for a change that will hurt them). Traditionally most Conservative voters would probably have NDP near the bottom of their list, and vice versa; that may be less true right now due to anti-Trudeau sentiments among some voters, particularly Conservatives.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

I have come around a lot on the quotas personally. Being male I just think we don't appreciate the difficulty and discrimination that women feel. Its pretty easy as a white male to look and say "we don't need these things to even it out" but then we do continually see less representation by women and these minority groups.

I have a lot of problems with quota based systems like what Justin is advocating, where we have to have specific races and specific sexes.

I think its the wrong approach, I'm too lazy but it would be interesting to see how many woman for example run politically and get involved in the front end of the campaigns as opposed to the back end of the campaigns (Campaign managers, party workers and volunteers)

The right approach is to find a way to encourage people to run, not to install people because of what they are.

Plus with quota based hiring it becomes a where can we put someone that's not qualified in a position where they stand there and look pretty but have no say.

[Red Slinger]

The FPTP proposal is a gamble for Trudeau which may end up helping the PCs. Harper is trying to scare voters by suggesting Trudeau is inexperienced and not ready to govern. Generally speaking, the electorate fear big changes and prefer small incremental ones. The fear of change combined with the PCs campaign of fear may be enough to scare people away from the Liberals.

I think this is probably a mistake by Trudeau at this point in time.

[CaptainCrunch]

To me, its really not a key election issue right now, that's the best I can say. Its a bit of camouflage.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

The concept of second and third choices really seems implausible in practice. I have hard enough time finding one party I am willing to vote for. The other parties generally fall into the "No" category and "Hell No" category.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

The FPTP proposal is a gamble for Trudeau which may end up helping the PCs. Harper is trying to scare voters by suggesting Trudeau is inexperienced and not ready to govern. Generally speaking, the electorate fear big changes and prefer small incremental ones. The fear of change combined with the PCs campaign of fear may be enough to scare people away from the Liberals.

I think this is probably a mistake by Trudeau at this point in time.

On another topic though those ads are just plain dumb. I mean are we really to believe those terrible actors sitting around looking at resumes? And if we do the plan is to say he looks good enough to be ready in a few years, but at this point not quite? So that's it then...just not quite enough experience but if he hangs around until next campaign he's a good choice. OK. Great message.

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't mind the ads, they're a lot more of a soft sell then previous ads.

I think that the Conservatives know that if Justin finishes third in this election and that's looking more and more likely that he won't be around for the next election.

The Liberals and especially the old boys in the back room will turn on him fairly quickly.

His performance as Liberal leader has been relatively poor.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

One other thing:

First-past-the-post has long been viewed as the primary culprit behind declining turnout, contributing to Canadians’ belief that their votes don’t count.


Does anyone really think that is the cause of declining turnout? Nothing to do with ever present scandals, lack of vision and leadership of the parties?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

One other thing:

First-past-the-post has long been viewed as the primary culprit behind declining turnout, contributing to Canadians’ belief that their votes don’t count.


Does anyone really think that is the cause of declining turnout? Nothing to do with ever present scandals, lack of vision and leadership of the parties?

Absolutely it is, especially among the younger generations. If you lived in Calgary (or most ridings in Alberta and Saskatchewan) for instance, and you don't vote Conservative, why would you even leave your house on election day? Trudeau also proposed looking into online voting, which might be the best thing he's promised so far, although then he added that he wanted to make voting mandatory, which is dumb.

[redforever]

I am sorry Justin, but preferential voting? You have to be kidding. That is the process used in Alberta to elect Ed Stelmach and Alison Redford.

Proportional representation? No thank you. It produces parties that have no chance of gaining power on their own becoming king makers. And coalitions and minority governments rarely produce a system that cooperates for the benefit of all. Instead, they produce governments that promise all kinds of things and spend all kinds of money, all for the sake of staying in power.

Look at Belgium. One of their last elections produced a government of 11 parties, none of which won more than 20% of the seats. It took them 541 days to form a coalition and the citizens had 589 days without an elected government. Belgium is politically divided along the lines of language and ethnicity. Is that what we want for Canada, to be further fractured along the lines of race and language?

Look at Israel. They have proportional representation and multiple political parties. Their system produces representatives from way out of the political mainstream and those parties have a lot of influence in government. Basically, they have political parties arguing over which one is the better Zionist.

Politics in Canada is not broken as much as its citizens will not cooperate.

Every party on Canada’s political scene offers some platform on foreign policy, the environment, spending priorities and the like. Canadians have to realize you can’t have it all so vote for a party that satisfies the majority of your needs. Simply forming more parties or changing the way we vote is not the be all some think it will be.

[Kerplunk]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

One other thing:

First-past-the-post has long been viewed as the primary culprit behind declining turnout, contributing to Canadians’ belief that their votes don’t count.


Does anyone really think that is the cause of declining turnout? Nothing to do with ever present scandals, lack of vision and leadership of the parties?

I'd say it contributes to it, but isn't the primary reason. If I was going to stay home, it wouldn't be because of the voting system, but the poor parties and candidates within the voting system.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Absolutely it is, especially among the younger generations. If you lived in Calgary (or most ridings in Alberta and Saskatchewan) for instance, and you don't vote Conservative, why would you even leave your house on election day? Trudeau also proposed looking into online voting, which might be the best thing he's promised so far, although then he added that he wanted to make voting mandatory, which is dumb.

I think the most recent provincial election answers your question. Things change.
I don't see how having the second choice counting for anything helps change the viewpoint that your vote doesn't count (other than making it count in a way that you may not actually prefer).

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Absolutely it is, especially among the younger generations. If you lived in Calgary (or most ridings in Alberta and Saskatchewan) for instance, and you don't vote Conservative, why would you even leave your house on election day?

By my count 16 calgary ridings went ndp/lib/ap in the election a few weeks ago and people seem to be equally as tired of the federal pcs as provincial so the election is open to be taken. Unfortunately the liberals still haven't found a leader as good as chretien or even martin imo and federally while the ndp has a leader strong enough to be elected they've basically positioned themselves as anti alberta to score votes elsewhere.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Dan02

By my count 16 calgary ridings went ndp/lib/ap in the election a few weeks ago and people seem to be equally as tired of the federal pcs as provincial so the election is open to be taken. Unfortunately the liberals still haven't found a leader as good as chretien or even martin imo and federally while the ndp has a leader strong enough to be elected they've basically positioned themselves as anti alberta to score votes elsewhere.

I don't think the provincial election is going to have any impact on the federal election in Alberta, and the polls seem to be reflecting that.

[Puppet Guy]

Forget both first-past-the-post and preferential ballot, I want to see candidates chosen via Thunderdome-esque combat: two enter...one leaves!

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Absolutely it is, especially among the younger generations. If you lived in Calgary (or most ridings in Alberta and Saskatchewan) for instance, and you don't vote Conservative, why would you even leave your house on election day? Trudeau also proposed looking into online voting, which might be the best thing he's promised so far, although then he added that he wanted to make voting mandatory, which is dumb.

First of all, I doubt its ever going to be implemented unless you put biometrics into it and the government stores that information. In terms of voting, they have to be sure its you that's voting.

Second of all, and this drives me crazy, most voting stations are within walking distance of your probable home, or within a 5 minute drive. Stating that the reason why people don't vote because they have to leave their house to vote is such a poor reason.

I don't believe in mandatory voting, frankly if a person doesn't want to vote then they don't vote, they have no say in the government and it makes then the ultimate sheep.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Slava

Why is preferential voting bad for one party in particular? Could it be that they've poisoned themselves so badly that they won't be those voters second choice? If so, they've created their own problem there. I don't see how a voting system favours any party though.

I hope I never hear you or any other Liberal/NDP supporter ever whine about vote splitting harming your side, ever again. Ever.

I have come around a lot on the quotas personally. Being male I just think we don't appreciate the difficulty and discrimination that women feel. Its pretty easy as a white male to look and say "we don't need these things to even it out" but then we do continually see less representation by women and these minority groups.

The solution to discrimination is not more discrimination. And that is what quota systems are.