Would you be willing to trade down in this draft?

[Red Menace]

A better example of it working was 2004 when we traded the 46th pick to CLB for picks 70 and 98.
CBJ drafted Adam Pineault and Sutter nabbed Brandon Prust and Dustin Boyd.

[tvp2003]

I'd prefer to keep 15 because there's a good chance you'll end up with a guy who slides from the top 10/12 on your board.

P.S. What's our history of trading up in the first round? Only one I recall off the top of my head is the Kidd/Brodeur debacle in '90.

[Red Menace]

As far as I can tell, the Kidd/Brodeur incident was the only time we traded up in round 1.
We did do it a few other times in later rounds.
In 2005 we traded picks 87 + 96 for pick 74.
We choose Dan Ryder (ouch), and BUF picked MA.Gragnani (74 career GP), and our old friend Chris Butler (382 GP)

In 2007 we traded up with BUF again, giving picks 139 + 147 for pick 116.
We chose Keith Aulie (167 GP), BUF chose 2 busts with zero combined GP.

In the same draft we traded up with COL to select Mickey Renaud, sadly we never got the chance to see him develop. Neither of COL's selections have played in the NHL.

In 2009 we traded picks 84 + 107 to LA for pick 74.
We chose Ryan Howse, LA selected Nicoloas Deslauriers with one of the picks, he has played 99 GP in the NHL so far.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

I'd prefer to keep 15 because there's a good chance you'll end up with a guy who slides from the top 10/12 on your board.

P.S. What's our history of trading up in the first round? Only one I recall off the top of my head is the Kidd/Brodeur debacle in '90.

If the Flames do decide to trade down, I expect they would not do so until they see who gets picked at #14 (and who remains) first.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Personally, I count 4D and 2RW I would not be disappointed in with the Flames picking at 15. All of them fit organizational need and at least one of them will be available at 20.

Now my list doesn't necessarily match the Flames list, but if it did, that scenario says you can consider trading back.

That is very hard to say...

Take 2013 draft: Central scouting had only 6 North American D-men ranked above 22 where the Flames Picked.... Zaradov was ranked #22 Morin ranked #23 and Morrisey ranked #27. These all were ranked behind the consensus International Picks Barkov, NICHUSHKIN, Lindholm, RISTOLAINEN and Weenberg.

In theory Zaradov , Morrissey and Morin all should have all been around when the Flames were picking #22 and #28.

If the Flames had the plan that they were going to stock up on D-men prospects with the 22 and 28 picks and there was going to be 4-5 great D picks on the board to choose from it got messed up at the draft.... Maybe they should have been taking 22 and/or 28 and adding in #67 to move up and get Mueller or Zaradov. They probably did not see the need to do that heading into the Draft.


They also could have just gone with the safe choice and pick the best available Kelowna Rocket D-man Bowey (who went #53) with #28 rather than Klimchuk.

So far no GM ever got fired or 2nd guessed for picking a Kelowna Rocket D-man too high.


In 2012 when the Flames went off the Board with #21 pick they had Kelowna rocket D-man and 22 minute/game NHL rookie with NJD Damon Severson on the board. He went #60 well behind Seiloff #42 who the Flames had as a first rounder on their list.


Is it just too easy to pick a Rocket D-man?

Devante Stephens is Ranked 108 in North american Skaters. Will he be around for 3rd round pick #76 or #83 or should the Flames jump on him in round #2?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

That is very hard to say...

Take 2013 draft: Central scouting had only 6 North American D-men ranked above 22 where the Flames Picked.... Zaradov was ranked #22 Morin ranked #23 and Morrisey ranked #27. These all were ranked behind the consensus International Picks Barkov, NICHUSHKIN, Lindholm, RISTOLAINEN and Weenberg.

In theory Zaradov , Morrissey and Morin all should have all been around when the Flames were picking #22 and #28.

If the Flames had the plan that they were going to stock up on D-men prospects with the 22 and 28 picks and there was going to be 4-5 great D picks on the board to choose from it got messed up at the draft.... Maybe they should have been taking 22 and/or 28 and adding in #67 to move up and get Mueller or Zaradov. They probably did not see the need to do that heading into the Draft.


They also could have just gone with the safe choice and pick the best available Kelowna Rocket D-man Bowey (who went #53) with #28 rather than Klimchuk.

So far no GM ever got fired or 2nd guessed for picking a Kelowna Rocket D-man too high.


In 2012 when the Flames went off the Board with #21 pick they had Kelowna rocket D-man and 22 minute/game NHL rookie with NJD Damon Severson on the board. He went #60 well behind Seiloff #42 who the Flames had as a first rounder on their list.


Is it just too easy to pick a Rocket D-man?

Devante Stephens is Ranked 108 in North american Skaters. Will he be around for 3rd round pick #76 or #83 or should the Flames jump on him in round #2?

I think you are joking about Kelowna D men, but Sureloss' point about having 6 potential picks and moving back 5 spots still stands. In that scenario you can move back and get one of the guys you like. Your story around the 2013 draft is irrelevant.

[Hackey]

No thanks to trading down. Extra no thanks to trading down and then picking off the board.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I think you are joking about Kelowna D men, but Sureloss' point about having 6 potential picks and moving back 5 spots still stands. In that scenario you can move back and get one of the guys you like. Your story around the 2013 draft is irrelevant.

Tyson Barrie - round 3 #64 overall 2009 NHL Entry Draft

Kyle Cumiskey round 7 #222 overall 2005 NHL Entry Draft - 139 NHL games

Alexander Edler round 3 #91 overall 2004 NHL Entry Draft

Josh Gorges undrafted signed with San Jose in 2004

Scott Hannan - round 1 #23 overall 1997 NHL Entry Draft

Duncan Keith - round 2 #54 overall 2002 NHL Entry Draft wasn't drafted out of the Rockets but played with them the year after

Tyler Myers- round 1 #12 overall 2008 NHL Entry Draft

Luke Schenn - round 1 #5 overall 2008 NHL Entry Draft

Sheldon Souray - round 3 #71 overall 1994 NHL Entry Draft

Shea Weber - round 2 #49 overall 2003 NHL Entry Draft

Damon Severson - round 2 #60 overall 2012 NHL Entry Draft

Then add Morrisey and Bowey and you have have basically a top-4 d-man graduating from the Rockets every year over the last 14.


The biggest "bust" would be Luke Schenn who was playing in the NHL as 18 year old after getting picked #5 overall..... and has almost 500 NHL games as a 25 year old. The rest far exceeded their draft pick position.

Find me a better correlation between success in the NHL as a D-man and learning how to play with the Rockets.

There is no surer thing than Drafting the previous generation of Sutters and they ran out of Sutters.

If the Flames pass on Stephens 6 times they will regret it.


As to my story about the 2013 draft.... you really think that the Flames management brain thrust didn't see that the Flames had zero d-man prospects in the system and wouldn't have picked one at 22 or 28 if they all hadn't been snapped. if the Flames would have been able to pick a quality d-man pick at 28 instead of Klimchuck they would be close to our top prospect close or better than Wotherspoon, Klimchuck is lucky if he in the top 6 forward prospects.

While you can look at mock drafts and rankings board and think that there will be 2 or 3 top notch D-men when the Flames pick at 15th but like 2013 they all may be gone.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Devante Stephens is Ranked 108 in North american Skaters. Will he be around for 3rd round pick #76 or #83 or should the Flames jump on him in round #2?

He would be a very good pick at 133, though I'd rather take a flyer on the younger Jankowski. I think there are better options in the first three rounds.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Tyson Barrie - round 3 #64 overall 2009 NHL Entry Draft

Kyle Cumiskey round 7 #222 overall 2005 NHL Entry Draft - 139 NHL games

Alexander Edler round 3 #91 overall 2004 NHL Entry Draft

Josh Gorges undrafted signed with San Jose in 2004

Scott Hannan - round 1 #23 overall 1997 NHL Entry Draft

Duncan Keith - round 2 #54 overall 2002 NHL Entry Draft wasn't drafted out of the Rockets but played with them the year after

Tyler Myers- round 1 #12 overall 2008 NHL Entry Draft

Luke Schenn - round 1 #5 overall 2008 NHL Entry Draft

Sheldon Souray - round 3 #71 overall 1994 NHL Entry Draft

Shea Weber - round 2 #49 overall 2003 NHL Entry Draft

Damon Severson - round 2 #60 overall 2012 NHL Entry Draft

Then add Morrisey and Bowey and you have have basically a top-4 d-man graduating from the Rockets every year over the last 14.


The biggest "bust" would be Luke Schenn who was playing in the NHL as 18 year old after getting picked #5 overall..... and has almost 500 NHL games as a 25 year old. The rest far exceeded their draft pick position.

Find me a better correlation between success in the NHL as a D-man and learning how to play with the Rockets.

There is no surer thing than Drafting the previous generation of Sutters and they ran out of Sutters.

If the Flames pass on Stephens 6 times they will regret it.


As to my story about the 2013 draft.... you really think that the Flames management brain thrust didn't see that the Flames had zero d-man prospects in the system and wouldn't have picked one at 22 or 28 if they all hadn't been snapped. if the Flames would have been able to pick a quality d-man pick at 28 instead of Klimchuck they would be close to our top prospect close or better than Wotherspoon, Klimchuck is lucky if he in the top 6 forward prospects.

While you can look at mock drafts and rankings board and think that there will be 2 or 3 top notch D-men when the Flames pick at 15th but like 2013 they all may be gone.

The Rockets have produced a nice list of Dmen, sure, but they still need to have a list and rank players. They won't write down "Draft Kelowna defensemen" and be done with it. As to 2013, they had a list and picked the guys at the top of their list when their turn came up. There is no way you can conclude that they thought a D man would be available at 22 or 28, based on a public scouting list. The topic at hand is trading down. They didn't trade down in 2013

[Moneyhands23]

Absolutely not. Well maybe, but only if someone blows us...

and no I didn't forget to put "away" at the end of that statement.

[dieHARDflameZ]

We get it. Kelowna is a dmen factory. With that said, I really don't think the Flames should be drafting Stephens in the first three rounds...

Not to mention, the kid is listed at 161 lbs. Unless he fills out significantly, he would get destroyed playing against big powerful western conference teams...

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Tyson Barrie - round 3 #64 overall 2009 NHL Entry Draft

Kyle Cumiskey round 7 #222 overall 2005 NHL Entry Draft - 139 NHL games

Alexander Edler round 3 #91 overall 2004 NHL Entry Draft

Josh Gorges undrafted signed with San Jose in 2004

Scott Hannan - round 1 #23 overall 1997 NHL Entry Draft

Duncan Keith - round 2 #54 overall 2002 NHL Entry Draft wasn't drafted out of the Rockets but played with them the year after

Tyler Myers- round 1 #12 overall 2008 NHL Entry Draft

Luke Schenn - round 1 #5 overall 2008 NHL Entry Draft

Sheldon Souray - round 3 #71 overall 1994 NHL Entry Draft

Shea Weber - round 2 #49 overall 2003 NHL Entry Draft

Damon Severson - round 2 #60 overall 2012 NHL Entry Draft

Then add Morrisey and Bowey and you have have basically a top-4 d-man graduating from the Rockets every year over the last 14.


The biggest "bust" would be Luke Schenn who was playing in the NHL as 18 year old after getting picked #5 overall..... and has almost 500 NHL games as a 25 year old. The rest far exceeded their draft pick position.

Find me a better correlation between success in the NHL as a D-man and learning how to play with the Rockets.

There is no surer thing than Drafting the previous generation of Sutters and they ran out of Sutters.

If the Flames pass on Stephens 6 times they will regret it.


As to my story about the 2013 draft.... you really think that the Flames management brain thrust didn't see that the Flames had zero d-man prospects in the system and wouldn't have picked one at 22 or 28 if they all hadn't been snapped. if the Flames would have been able to pick a quality d-man pick at 28 instead of Klimchuck they would be close to our top prospect close or better than Wotherspoon, Klimchuck is lucky if he in the top 6 forward prospects.

While you can look at mock drafts and rankings board and think that there will be 2 or 3 top notch D-men when the Flames pick at 15th but like 2013 they all may be gone.

What does any of this have to do with trading down? And who are you talking to?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

What does any of this have to do with [any topic ricardow posts to]? And who are you talking to?

Excellent questions that we ask all too frequently.

[Johnny Rotten]

It's hard to say, but take a look at 2013...If the Flames picked where Tampa Bay was picking (#3) and Tampa was picking at #6 (where Calgary was picking), and hindsight being 20-20, I would easily move back and take Monahan over Drouin, and take an extra second or so in the process.

If the Flames are sure of the guy at 15, then don't move back, but if it's a coin flip, and they can still get the player they want a couple picks back, why not?

(Still, probably would rather have Maata over Jankowski though)

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rotten

It's hard to say, but take a look at 2013...If the Flames picked where Tampa Bay was picking (#3) and Tampa was picking at #6 (where Calgary was picking), and hindsight being 20-20, I would easily move back and take Monahan over Drouin, and take an extra second or so in the process.

If the Flames are sure of the guy at 15, then don't move back, but if it's a coin flip, and they can still get the player they want a couple picks back, why not?

(Still, probably would rather have Maata over Jankowski though)

Except we didn't know how good Monahan was going to be. If we had the #3 pick, I guarantee the Flames would've picked Seth Jones.

It all depends on if you feel that the player you want is available at a later spot.

[Johnny Rotten]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Except we didn't know how good Monahan was going to be. If we had the #3 pick, I guarantee the Flames would've picked Seth Jones.

It all depends on if you feel that the player you want is available at a later spot.

"Except we didn't know how good Monahan was going to be." That's why I wrote hindsight being 20-20.

"If we had the #3 pick, I guarantee the Flames would've picked Seth Jones." If Jones were available, Jones would have been a Flame, I agree.

"It all depends on if you feel that the player you want is available at a later spot." Yup, I think that's what I wrote.

[Stay Golden]

Take the pick it is a gift the Flames made the playoffs and still pick 15th. Beat the Canucks in round 1 and still get to pick before them. Couldn't have worked out better.
Take the quality at 15. Monahan, Bennett the 1st round has been good to the Flames keep the mojo going.

[dino7c]

BPA is a matter of opinion...if they feel the next guy on THEIR list will be available at say 20th pick why not trade 15 for 20 and an asset?

[albertGQ]

I wonder if BT would trade 15 to buffalo for 21 and 31.