Friedman: Flames a good fit for Kessel?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by TOfan

why bring up Gio? who said anything about Gio?

in fact trading for kessel now would only serve to augment my argument. having an elite RW, kessel, while Giordano is still in his prime only benefits the flames.

everything you just said about Giordano is a reason why you might want to bring in Kessel.

Giving up a bunch of assets and cap space two years into a rebuild only benefits the Flames how exactly?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TOfan

because they are 'rebuilding'. anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see this and know what it means.

the benefits of a package of picks/prospects outweigh those of having Phil Kessel on the ice for them this year and beyond. In the words of Mike Babcock; 'there will be pain.' But if you can't sniff this out for yourself, I'll do it for you.

Think of where the leafs are right now, and what the value of trading an asset like Kessel could mean to the trajectory of where they see themselves 3-5 years from now. I would argue that trading the already in his prime Kessel would be a shrewd move for the organization. Sure they give up their most dangerous offensive weapon, and one that was heavily scrutinized due to the cost of acquiring said weapon, but the 3-4 young assets are more valuble to the Leafs right now and moving forward. Further, the subtraction of Kessel from the line up effectively makes the team worse. Meaning instead of drafting no.7 this time next year (and if all goes well, or shi*tty depending on your point of view) they're picking in the top 5.

Again, no way the flames move one of their prized assets, but if you can get Kessel for a 1st, Backlund, and Gilles Treliving would have to strongly consider that.

Gillies is a prized asset. Kessel ruins our cap situation and if he had all these intangibles and was worth the co tract Leafs fans claim then it would be a mistake moving him.

Flames entered their rebuild shipping off 35 year old Iggy and 29 year old Bouwmeester. Feaster admitted he traded Bouw because they talked about a contract extension and Bouw wasn't interested so he was dealt.

Leaf fans are not getting a 1st and a top prospect for Kessel I will be really shocked if they do. They will get a return similar to Bobby Ryan which is a first, young roster player, and the 4-5th best prospect from a team

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TOfan

why bring up Gio? who said anything about Gio?

in fact trading for kessel now would only serve to augment my argument. having an elite RW, kessel, while Giordano is still in his prime only benefits the flames.

everything you just said about Giordano is a reason why you might want to bring in Kessel.

It makes perfect sense why he brought up Gio. Gio may have been turning 30 when the Flames started their rebuild but they knew he needed to be a part of it to help mentor guys like Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett etc. they easily could have moved him for a 1st+ when they traded Iggy and Bouw or could have got a ransom at the draft or last years deadline but he is an important piece now and for the future.

the way you talk about Kessel he should also be retained to help mentor guys like Rielly, Nylander, Strome/Marner etc and not traded. The rebuild should only be 3-4 years where Kessel will be Gio's age and still producing.

Instead the Leafs are looking to move him because he lacks those qualities Gio has and is an overpaid scoring winger who does not fit the plans of a Flames team entering year 3 of a rebuild

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Giving up a bunch of assets and cap space two years into a rebuild only benefits the Flames how exactly?

how should the flames conduct themselves under this 'rebuild'? how long should it last? one more year? three more years? Please, tell us, what does your crystal ball say?

should they use assets to acquire players in their prime to get better now? should they be concerned that in all likelihood their captain and (arguably) best player is on the wrong side of 30? should they trade gio and go full rebuild?

you can spin it, the term 'rebuild', however you want. The one thing I will state is that the flames are a lot closer to being a competitive team than the Leafs. They proved that last year. That said, this team could easily fall out of the playoff picture for 2-3 years if they aren't open to improving their team regardless of what the precieved notion of a 'rebuild' should look like. Adding phil kessel helps get this team right now. full stop.

Or maybe the flames organization should just put last year in their back pocket and be happy with that. I'm fairly certain that's how guys like brian burke conduct themselves.

Put it this way; the Flames, right now, are a whole lot closer to being a competitive team than the leafs were when they acquired kessel. If you think bruke and his hockey ops team are afraid to make a bold move to expedite a rebuild, you should give that some more thought.

Might not be Kessel, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the Flames make a move this summer that has an eye towards the immediate instead of the distant.

[Vinny01]

TOfan you realize there is a salary cap right? Flames need to pay Gaudreau, Monahan, and Gio (3 pkayers that all were better thanKessel last year) and shouldn't waste $8M of their cap on a winger who is 1 dimensional. Flames would be hurting their rebuild acquiring Kessel. You don't pay your 4th best forward $8M and if things go according to plan that is what Phil would be in 1-2 years.

[Badgers Nose]

Flames don't need Kessel. Sad that Friedman is trolling now.

Everything Flames need is already in their system.

RW Poirier
D Wotherspoon
G Ortio

They are not elite, but I think they will win spots and earn progressively more ice time until Poirier is a solid 2/3 RW and Wotherspoon takes the #4 spot (pushing Wideman to 3rd pair PP specialist).

Flames elite upgrade will be Bennett. Between him and Poirier I think there is 30-35 net positive goals versus guys they will push down the depth chart.

And lots more good stuff is coming soon. There are good farm players that can fill in when injuries hit.

With Bennett and Gio in the lineup they will start the year a better team than they were at the end of 2014/5, which is saying something.

Much like last off season I think there are a lot fans nervous about being too optimistic. But I think we'll know by December that this team is for real.

I also expect the Avs to fight Calgary for position right to the wire. Last year was an anomaly for them.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Leaf fans are not getting a 1st and a top prospect for Kessel I will be really shocked if they do. They will get a return similar to Bobby Ryan which is a first, young roster player, and the 4-5th best prospect from a team

A top prospect is a pretty vague asset, if we're talking about McDavid or even Bennett, you're probably right. If we mean one of the average's team's top prospect, maybe someone like Burakovsky or Severson, then I think he easily gets that.

Silfverberg was arguably the top prospect for the Senators going into the 2012 season after a great season in the SEL which included winning the championship and MVP. Zibanejad was drafted 6th overall, certainly more would have named him at the top, but Silfverberg made a case for himself.

He had a decent rookie showing, while adjusting to the North American rink size and style. He was arguably worth more than a 'top prospect' as he had already shown more in the NHL to go along with what he had shown in the SEL.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Flames don't need Kessel. Sad that Friedman is trolling now.

Everything Flames need is already in their system.

RW Poirier
D Wotherspoon
G Ortio

They are not elite, but I think they will win spots and earn progressively more ice time until Poirier is a solid 2/3 RW and Wotherspoon takes the #4 spot (pushing Wideman to 3rd pair PP specialist).

Flames elite upgrade will be Bennett. Between him and Poirier I think there is 30-35 net positive goals versus guys they will push down the depth chart.

And lots more good stuff is coming soon. There are good farm players that can fill in when injuries hit.

With Bennett and Gio in the lineup they will start the year a better team than they were at the end of 2014/5, which is saying something.

Much like last off season I think there are a lot fans nervous about being too optimistic. But I think we'll know by December that this team is for real.

I also expect the Avs to fight Calgary for position right to the wire. Last year was an anomaly for them.

I don't think Friedman was trolling. The question was asked who t thought the teams calling about Kessel would be. He answered Nashville and someone else. At the end of the conversation he wondered aloud if the Burke connection could lead Kessel to Calgary

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by TOfan

how should the flames conduct themselves under this 'rebuild'? how long should it last? one more year? three more years? Please, tell us, what does your crystal ball say?

You don't need a crystal ball to know a team two years into a rebuild and building around players 25 (maybe less) and younger aren't desperate to bring in a 28 year old with a massive contract.

As for how long, I'd expect them to be a contender in about 3 years or so. Be nice if it were sooner, but I'm not expecting it.

should they use assets to acquire players in their prime to get better now? should they be concerned that in all likelihood their captain and (arguably) best player is on the wrong side of 30? should they trade gio and go full rebuild?

They aren't keeping Gio around just because he's a great hockey player (even though he was the best d-man in the league before he got hurt). He brings a little more to the table than that.

you can spin it, the term 'rebuild', however you want. The one thing I will state is that the flames are a lot closer to being a competitive team than the Leafs. They proved that last year. That said, this team could easily fall out of the playoff picture for 2-3 years if they aren't open to improving their team regardless of what the precieved notion of a 'rebuild' should look like. Adding phil kessel helps get this team right now. full stop.

Sure, the Flames could be out of the playoff picture for years, it's a pretty competitive league, especially the Western Conference. They could also win the Cup next season. Phil Kessel could make the Flames worse. Lots of things can happen.

Or maybe the flames organization should just put last year in their back pocket and be happy with that. I'm fairly certain that's how guys like brian burke conduct themselves.

I really have no idea what you're talking about here.

Put it this way; the Flames, right now, are a whole lot closer to being a competitive team than the leafs were when they acquired kessel. If you think bruke and his hockey ops team are afraid to make a bold move to expedite a rebuild, you should give that some more thought.

Where did I say they wouldn't make a bold move? What an odd comment.

Might not be Kessel, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the Flames make a move this summer that has an eye towards the immediate instead of the distant.

Agreed. If it happens I'm sure it will be with a player on a reasonable contract.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

TOfan you realize there is a salary cap right? Flames need to pay Gaudreau, Monahan, and Gio (3 pkayers that all were better thanKessel last year) and shouldn't waste $8M of their cap on a winger who is 1 dimensional.

This point on it's own should put this entire debate to bed. But it doesn't - because TOfan is taking it personally for some reason.

Friedman was uncharacteristically lazy with this, the only reason he mentioned the Flames was because of Burke.

[Jason14h]

TOfan you realize there is a salary cap right? Flames need to pay Gaudreau, Monahan, and Gio (3 pkayers that all were better thanKessel last year) and shouldn't waste $8M of their cap on a winger who is 1 dimensional. Flames would be hurting their rebuild acquiring Kessel. You don't pay your 4th best forward $8M and if things go according to plan that is what Phil would be in 1-2 years.

I think his cap hit is a bit overblown for hurting us.

We have 25 million committed past this year. Sure you are going to have to spend ~12-15 million extra to sign Johnny, Monahan, and Gio, but that still only put us at 40 million. Add in a Kessel at 8 (And assume you can't get Toronto to eat 1 mil) and you still have 20 million + cap increases to fill out the roster.

The year after Smid, Raymond and Engelland come off for another 10 million in freed up money.

Look at it this way. Raymond and Engelland got signed for a total of 6 million last season. For 3 million more we can have Kessel + a rookie contract fill that space.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'll take care of this.

Waves his hand slowly

"The Flames don't want Phil Kessel"

Waves his hand slowly again

"The Flames don't need Phil Kessel"

Waves his hand slowly

"These are the Druids that you're looking for"

[Galakanokis]

I sure hope this never happens, not a Kessel hater by any means but i don't want him anywhere near this team. For $8mil a season you need a heck of a lot more than 30ish goals a season. I hate Corey Perry and I would take him on this team in a heart beat over Kessel, has so much more to offer than 30 goals. $8Mill might be the low end of elite pay but it is still up there. For that you just need more than lazy uninspired play. The risk is just not worth it to find out whether or not he is what we think he is.

I honestly see no way this happens unless the Leafs retain salary and sell for pennies on the dollar.

[GioforPM]

Kessel was the 8th highest paid forwrd but the 89th highest scoring forward at even strength.

;0

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

We have 25 million committed past this year. Sure you are going to have to spend ~12-15 million extra to sign Johnny, Monahan, and Gio, but that still only put us at 40 million. Add in a Kessel at 8 (And assume you can't get Toronto to eat 1 mil) and you still have 20 million + cap increases to fill out the roster.

Russell will also be a UFA. As will Hudler. Same with Jones. Colborne will be an RFA, as will Granlund. There's also only one goalie (Gillies) under contract after next season. And I seriously doubt you'll get all 3 of Gio, Monahan and JH for under 15 million. Gio could be 8 or 9 mil just by himself. Yes, you could bring in Kessel and make it fit but it's not as simple as you're making it sound.

[Enoch Root]

That proposal of Backlund, Gillies and a 1st is an absolute joke and there is no way the Flames would do that.

But instead of listing all the reasons not to want Kessel,, I will simply pose a question:

If the Flames were going to put Backlund, Gillies and a 1st on the table, who would you want back?

Is Kessel anywhere near the top of anyone's list? He wouldn't make the top 20 of mine (of players that you could potentially acquire with that package).

TOFan, get a grip dude, there is no way the Flames give up those assets for Kessel. There is a reason that Toronto is rebuilding, and the reason is that their leaders - Kessel, Phaneuf, etc - couldn't get it done for them. Oh, and $8M.

[JohnnySkittles]

Originally Posted by kehatch

The amount of misinformation on this player is crazy. Someone go find the myth busters because many of you need a reeducation.

Regarding fitness: He is never injured. I have seen no sign of fitness issues on the ice. He scores very well in fitness training.

Regarding value: The bar was set with the Nash and Ryan trades. Your not talking Bennett. Your not talking garbage. Your talking about something like a first, Backlund, Poirier, and Wotherspoon.

Regarding contract: There is nothing wrong with 8-million for a player of this age and caliber.

Regarding attitude: I haven't seen a coach, GM, or team mate say anything bad about the players attitude.

He wouldn't just make us better, he would make us MUCH better for the next 5 years.

Personally, I don't think we are far enough along in the rebuild to justify thus type of move. But some of the comments on here are completely uninformed.

Well it is CP, not the most knowledgeable bunch with non Flames things outside of a select few (ex: Sureloss)

[Igster]

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

Well it is CP, not the most knowledgeable bunch with non Flames things outside of a select few (ex: Sureloss)

Those are some pretty broad strokes you are brushing there.

[cKy]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Russell will also be a UFA. As will Hudler. Same with Jones. Colborne will be an RFA, as will Granlund. There's also only one goalie (Gillies) under contract after next season. And I seriously doubt you'll get all 3 of Gio, Monahan and JH for under 15 million. Gio could be 8 or 9 mil just by himself. Yes, you could bring in Kessel and make it fit but it's not as simple as you're making it sound.

Gio is awesome and deserves to get paid, but im not sure a older oft-injured (averages around 60 games a year) defenseman is getting 8-9 mill..

[Jason14h]

And I seriously doubt you'll get all 3 of Gio, Monahan and JH for under 15 million.

I said AN EXTRA 15 million, They aren't playing for free today you know.

Not trying to be a dick, but you don't even read the post properly and then say it's not as easy as I make it sound. It is extremely easy and puts not pressure on us cap wise for the next 2 years. After that it's only a burden if he isn't performing, which is the whole risk in bringing him in (Or if the cap plummets)