Truth and Reconciliation Commission

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The problem is they want the nice material things our society has to offer, without being a part of it. And they want to do it while living in isolated rural communities that offer little economic opportunity. The desires of material comfort and independent isolation are incompatible.

Oh yeah. When I think living the good life with al the material things our society has to offer, I always think of life on the reserve.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Oh yeah. When I think living the good life with al the material things our society has to offer, I always think of life on the reserve.

That's my entire point - if you're going to live in isolated rural community with few nearby industries, you're probably going to be poor. But Natives don't want to be poor. Like the rest of us they want trucks and iPhones and Playstations.

[polak]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Oh yeah. When I think living the good life with al the material things our society has to offer, I always think of life on the reserve.

His overall point is correct though.

They expect to have the same quality of life as the off-reserve population while living in communities that are unproductive and provide zero economic benefit. I'm not saying all reserves are like that, but ALOT of them are.

I had a case study in university on an isolated native community in Northern Manitoba that relied on government provided air transport on a weekly basis as their access to health care. The community had serious problems with kidney disease (which I believe was caused by their diet but I can't remember) and thus many patients were being flown in and out for dialysis. Once the government announced that they would no longer be funding the free rides to Winnipeg there was outrage. They felt they were entitled to live where they live AND 1st class access to healthcare despite the fact that you know... they don't pay taxes, there community doesn't generate any economic value and was located hours away from any real population center.

I'm sorry but I don't think the government should be subsidizing their choice to live in these far flung locations that can't support their population.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by polak

His overall point is correct though.

They expect to have the same quality of life as the off-reserve population while living in communities that are unproductive and provide zero economic benefit. I'm not saying all reserves are like that, but ALOT of them are.

I had case study in university on an isolated native community in Northern Manitoba that relied on government provided air transport on a weekly basis as their access to health care. The community had serious problems with kidney disease (which I believe was caused by their diet but I can't remember) and thus many patients were being flown in and out for dialysis. Once the government announced that they would no longer be funding the free rides to Winnipeg there was outrage. They felt they were entitled to live where they live AND 1st class access to healthcare despite the fact that you know... they don't pay taxes, there community doesn't generate any economic value and was located hours away from any real population center.

I'm sorry but I don't think the government should be subsidizing their choice to live in these far flung locations that can't support their population.

I think that is an important point when reading the recommendations. On the one hand, it would be hard to argue against insisting on the same level of medical care for reserve/non-reserve natives as suggested in the report. But in the context of extremely remote locations, it becomes next to impossible. It isn't so much about not paying taxes, but at what cost do we try and sustain something that isn't sustainable? Since we can't turn back the clock, the solutions have to be grounded in today's reality.

[polak]

Well to be frank, there are non-reserve communities that face the exact same issues and we don't subsidize their free flights to town so they can go to the doctor on a weekly basis.

[Johnny199r]

I've been to many many Northern First Nations in the course of my career. It's not as easy as people make it seem when they say just natives are lazy and they shouldleave the reserve.

The disadvantage of growing up where they do, means that transition to city life and independent living, is extremely tough and would take a lot of help from certain agencies.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

I've been to many many Northern First Nations in the course of my career. It's not as easy as people make it seem when they say just natives are lazy and they shouldleave the reserve.

The disadvantage of growing up where the do, means that transition to city life and independent living, is extremely tough and would take a lot of help from certain agencies.

Totally agree. Never would assume it is easy.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

I've been to many many Northern First Nations in the course of my career. It's not as easy as people make it seem when they say just natives are lazy and they shouldleave the reserve.

The disadvantage of growing up where they do, means that transition to city life and independent living, is extremely tough and would take a lot of help from certain agencies.

Definitely. But one of the problems is that their leaders don't want to them to leave, so that help is not forthcoming.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Oh yeah. When I think living the good life with al the material things our society has to offer, I always think of life on the reserve.

You are absolutely right. They are, for the most part, wretched places. However, the social structures of reserves is very much kinship-based, and while this is what results in the vast, unequal, shifting fortunes, even the lowest person on the ladder gets housing, utilities, food, and some work. Not to mention the tight social structures that act as petri dishes for widespread substance abuse.

Like all poor people of the growing Western underclass, reserve aboriginals are beguiled, and thus seek, the latest in consumer gadgets. I cannot tell you of the countless times I have met people who barely have enough to feed their family the standard diet of white bread and bologna, but still have the latest iPhone.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

I've been to many many Northern First Nations in the course of my career. It's not as easy as people make it seem when they say just natives are lazy and they shouldleave the reserve.

The disadvantage of growing up where they do, means that transition to city life and independent living, is extremely tough and would take a lot of help from certain agencies.

I agree. We actually need more government assistance of a certain type. Targeted educational ventures, massive healthcare dollars, and government-supported partnerships with outside businesses and social institutions that would make the transition from reserve to non-reserve easier.

That said, it is a family issue. The family on the reserve is still tribal in nature, that is, your coefficient of relationship to leadership determines what perks you will receive, and vice versa. However, the nuclear family, the basis of financial and emotional support, barely exists. In short, these are part of the growing group of people who have lost the Sexual Revolution. There is absolutely no incentive on a reserve for a man to stay around with a woman once she has been impregnated. It is not uncommon to meet women that have 2,3,4 or 5 children, all with different fathers.

[fulham]

The Reserve system is what holds back any societal progress.

This Reserve system greatly benefits the First Nations members at the top of the Reserve pyramid. And therefore will never change. As often these members are the only ones who are well educated.

The Government will never do anything to change this structure, as the Leaders of FN groups will scream bloody murder, and label anyone trying to end the obscene levels of corruption as "Racist Colonialst's"


I was lucky enough to get a Scholarship to a Renowned Boarding School on Vancouver Island. There was about two dozens kids present who were kids of local FN Chiefs....

[polak]

Some one will take a stand against the reserve system in the next 20 years.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by peter12

I agree. We actually need more government assistance of a certain type. Targeted educational ventures, massive healthcare dollars, and government-supported partnerships with outside businesses and social institutions that would make the transition from reserve to non-reserve easier.

That said, it is a family issue. The family on the reserve is still tribal in nature, that is, your coefficient of relationship to leadership determines what perks you will receive, and vice versa. However, the nuclear family, the basis of financial and emotional support, barely exists. In short, these are part of the growing group of people who have lost the Sexual Revolution. There is absolutely no incentive on a reserve for a man to stay around with a woman once she has been impregnated. It is not uncommon to meet women that have 2,3,4 or 5 children, all with different fathers.

Here's why it won't work, the government would announce it, we're spending these mega millions on school initiatives, and health care and social structure. The first question comes out, who has oversight on how the money is spent?

The common sense answer would be the Federal Government, they would decide on where the money is spent and how.

The actual reaction would be, that's racist and imposing on our culture, just write us the cheques and we'll spend it as we see fit.

What will then happen is that we'll write checks to build schools and the well run reserves will get schools, with others the money will disappear into contracts for family members, and the schools will not be built or built properly or they'll spend it on something else.

The only way it would work is if it was imposed and managed by the government. The FN's won't allow that to happen.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Here's why it won't work, the government would announce it, we're spending these mega millions on school initiatives, and health care and social structure. The first question comes out, who has oversight on how the money is spent?

The common sense answer would be the Federal Government, they would decide on where the money is spent and how.

The actual reaction would be, that's racist and imposing on our culture, just write us the cheques and we'll spend it as we see fit.

What will then happen is that we'll write checks to build schools and the well run reserves will get schools, with others the money will disappear into contracts for family members, and the schools will not be built or built properly or they'll spend it on something else.

The only way it would work is if it was imposed and managed by the government. The FN's won't allow that to happen.

Not to mention, IF the gov't does retain oversight and build schools, what's the first thing that folks are going to hear about? "They are rebuilding the residential schools!"

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

In short, these are part of the growing group of people who have lost the Sexual Revolution.

This is an odd statement.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by rubecube

This is an odd statement.

Peter believes the loss of the 'family' as promoted between the 1930s and 1950s and their surrounding structures are a root cause for many of society's ills.

The dates i gave are me attempting to ascribe a chronology to the structure as a reference, I don't want to appear like I'm speaking for him too much.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Peter believes the loss of the 'family' as promoted between the 1930s and 1950s and their surrounding structures are a root cause for many of society's ills.

The dates i gave are me attempting to ascribe a chronology to the structure as a reference, I don't want to appear like I'm speaking for him too much.

Ahhhh yes the good old days, when you could rape and beat your wife with impugnity. So wholesome.

[icecube]

Reading this thread is akin to reading a bunch of southern white Americans thoughts on how to solve "the black problem". The scary part is, none of you can see the difference, because the paternalistic colonial attitude is so deeply embedded.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by icecube

Reading this thread is akin to reading a bunch of southern white Americans thoughts on how to solve "the black problem". The scary part is, none of you can see the difference, because the paternalistic colonial attitude is so deeply embedded.

No, I think it's more people trying to solve the "reserve problem". Unless you think everything is A-OK there?

[icecube]

Here's a link. I recommend checking it out, as well as the links contained within.

http://apihtawikosisan.com/2012/01/no-justice-no-peace/