Gas Stations Gas and Dash Incident

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I looked it up, and S.423 is related to url=http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-423.html]intimidation[/url. I'm curious as to how that would upgrade the charge to murder 1.

Not a lawyer (obviously), but presuming there are no laws that automatically upgrade the charge because this homicide was committed in the act of committing another crime, I can't see murder 1 or 2 sticking. The driver will probably end up with manslaughter, imo. The passenger, I'm guessing, would be looking at charges related to being an accessory to the crime.

Murder can be considered to be first degree when it happened while the accused was committing intimidation, there are several different contexts under which first degree murder can be considered.(Committing or attempting hijacking, sexual assault with weapon, aggravated sexual assault, terrorist activity, killing a peace officer)

To be found guilty, it would have to be found that the death occurred in the context of one of the situations that allows for the charge and that the accused was a substantial cause of the victims death.

Also not a lawyer.

[blueski]

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread but is there a donations link yet to help out the family?

[jschick88]

Calgary Sun ‏@calgarysun 2 minutes ago
#Calgary police confirm they have one person of interest in custody in relation to Sunday's gas and dash fatal hit and run 1/1

Calgary Sun ‏@calgarysun 1 minute ago
They also report a second person of interest inside a house in NW #Calgary. They are negotiating with the man to come out. 2/2

[troutman]

Terrible news. Terrible story.

My family was there the day before, and I think it was her that helped us.

I hope for justice. I hope the family is supported by the community.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by jschick88

Calgary Sun ‏@calgarysun 2 minutes ago
#Calgary police confirm they have one person of interest in custody in relation to Sunday's gas and dash fatal hit and run 1/1

Calgary Sun ‏@calgarysun 1 minute ago
They also report a second person of interest inside a house in NW #Calgary. They are negotiating with the man to come out. 2/2

I am hoping the negotiation involves the SWAT team and heavy armour

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by jschick88

Calgary Sun ‏@calgarysun 1 minute ago
They also report a second person of interest inside a house in NW #Calgary. They are negotiating with the man to come out. 2/2

if it's the driver, please please please shoot and kill him

[Trojan97]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

if it's the driver, please please please shoot and kill him

No officer wants to live with that. I understand the disgust and frustration but let's hope it doesn't come to that.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Trojan97

No officer wants to live with that. I understand the disgust and frustration but let's hope it doesn't come to that.

I guess that would be the ####ty thing.

[jar_e]

Incredibly sad to lose a life over this. I see this all the time and the best piece of advice I can give is being a good witness is a thousand times more helpful the majority of the time then someone trying to be hero. It's rarely worth it, it can go sideways in a heartbeat, and the risk is usually high to the civilian.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

if it's the driver, please please please shoot and kill him

Death is too kind for this POS. 25 to life in isolation is the right punishment but we all know he won't get this in Canada. I don't usually say this but this POS should burn in hell. How could he just run over someone on purpose?

[Drury18]

Global reporting the 2nd suspect has been arrested and the standoff ended peacefully. Taken into police custody about 30 minutes ago.

[Coys1882]

I can sort of understand that they would gun it and hope she moves but I saw a part that said she was on the hood for 15m and they kept going. Once she fell off was when she got ran over. When she's hanging onto the truck and you're looking her in the eyes and not stopping how is the intent not there?

[blueski]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I can sort of understand that they would gun it and hope she moves but I saw a part that said she was on the hood for 15m and they kept going. Once she fell off was when she got ran over. When she's hanging onto the truck and you're looking her in the eyes and not stopping how is the intent not there?

Yep. Here's to hoping the driver is at least 18.

[Kjesse]

This lady should not have jumped on the hood of that truck, 100 bucks in gas versus the risk of grievous bodily harm or death makes the decision easy. I hope the company already has a policy in place to advise the staff to not do anything jeopardizing their safety. This death was senseless. I feel awful for the family, especially the child who now does not have a mother.

The driver should go to jail for a long time but I doubt a murder conviction will result, even if I think it's deserved.

The SCC said this in 1990 on the issue of intent:


In my view, in a free and democratic society that values the autonomy and free will of the individual, the stigma and punishment attaching to the most serious of crimes, murder, should be reserved for those who choose to intentionally cause death or who choose to inflict bodily harm that they know is likely to cause death. The essential role of requiring subjective foresight of death in the context of murder is to maintain a proportionality between the stigma and punishment attached to a murder conviction and the moral blameworthiness of the offender. Murder has long been recognized as the "worst" and most heinous of peace time crimes. It is, therefore, essential that to satisfy the principles of fundamental justice, the stigma and punishment attaching to a murder conviction must be reserved for those who either intend to cause death or who intend to cause bodily harm that they know will likely cause death.

[blueski]

Not liking how the media is framing this as a 'gas n dash'. This murder was one of many crimes these ######s comitted durring their spree. Their time would be up if they quit and surrendered at the gas station. There's the motive right there. It wasn't to just steal gas, it was to evade arrest for all of their crimes on that and the prior day. She was an eye witness to one of their many crimes.

[Kjesse]

The key part of that exerpt above is "subjective foresight of death". In other words, we might all agree that the driver should have known he was likely to cause the injury which resulted in death, but if the driver himself did not form that intent, the charge of murder won't stick.

It's the persons actual intent, not what they should have know or how they should have behaved, that forms the basis of a murder conviction.

[blueski]

Originally Posted by Delgar

This lady should not have jumped on the hood of that truck, 100 bucks in gas versus the risk of grievous bodily harm or death makes the decision easy. I hope the company already has a policy in place to advise the staff to not do anything jeopardizing their safety. This death was senseless. I feel awful for the family, especially the child who now does not have a mother.

The driver should go to jail for a long time but I doubt a murder conviction will result, even if I think it's deserved.

The SCC said this in 1990 on the issue of intent:


In my view, in a free and democratic society that values the autonomy and free will of the individual, the stigma and punishment attaching to the most serious of crimes, murder, should be reserved for those who choose to intentionally cause death or who choose to inflict bodily harm that they know is likely to cause death. The essential role of requiring subjective foresight of death in the context of murder is to maintain a proportionality between the stigma and punishment attached to a murder conviction and the moral blameworthiness of the offender. Murder has long been recognized as the "worst" and most heinous of peace time crimes. It is, therefore, essential that to satisfy the principles of fundamental justice, the stigma and punishment attaching to a murder conviction must be reserved for those who either intend to cause death or who intend to cause bodily harm that they know will likely cause death.

A cop would have pulled their gun and shot the driver if they were in the same spot. They are only allowed to do that when their lives are threatened. How does pushing the accelerator to the floor and not slowing down as they fall off and you run them over not qualify as intent?

Still, it makes me sick because I think it will play out as not even a second degree charge.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by blueski

A cop would have pulled their gun and shot the driver if they were in the same spot. They are only allowed to do that when their lives are threatened. How does pushing the accelerator to the floor and not slowing down as they fall off and you run them over not qualify as intent?

Still, it makes me sick because I think it will play out as not even a second degree charge.

I don't disagree with you, in terms of what it should be in terms of conviction, I'm saying what I expect will result.

Though I wouldn't expect a cop in Canada to jump on the hood of a fleeing truck let alone pull a gun, to stop the criminal from getting way with some gas.

[Dan02]

These are probably going to be some unpopular opinions but here we go. As much as the situation sucks I think manslaughter is the charge that likely sticks here.

There was no premeditation or planning here so murder 1 is off the table from the get go, it was a unplanned confrontation with someone he never knew.

So is it manslaughter or murder 2. Murder 2 essentially means it was a deliberate killing. Assuming the defense argues that she got ran over because the driver was just trying to escape, I think the prosecution is going to have a pretty hard time proving that the intent was to kill her and not just escape from her.

and second, the minor who wasn't driving from what I've seen is only guilty of being passenger in a vehicle that was involved in a hit and run and stealing some gas. IMO no a high school kid doesn't need to be railroaded all over the internet with the limited information we have. If it turns out he was more involved then just being the passenger somehow, then the crown can try him as a adult and then you guys all can run his name through the mud. But with the extremely limited information we have our laws say we should protect the minors name.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Why has the media not been asking about Centex's alleged policy on staff covering gas and dash incidents? I can understand why a staff member might chase down someone if they worry about having to give up $100 to cover the incident. It isn't smart but I can see why someone would do it. It could be an entire day's salary for someone who works at the store. If anything, I'd like our government to ban that practice.

The mandatory pay at the pump doesn't really mean much to me.