Friedman: Flames a good fit for Kessel?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

He'll be 33 to start the last year of his contract. Injuries are always an issue with long-term contracts but he hasn't missed a game in 5 years.

I still think there's a disconnect where people are erroneously comparing contracts between the old contracts and the ones signed after cap-circumvention was prevented. Bobby Ryan, who scored 23 and 18 goals the last 2 years and can't spell intensity, is going to be making 7M+ for the next 7 years. Their contracts end the same year, and Bobby Ryan is older than Kessel.

10M will be the norm for the elite talents in their primes. 80% for the second tier players is reasonable. Given his goal scoring ability, I don't think it's wrong to put Kessel in that second tier.

The main reason I wouldn't want Kessel is the assets it would require to get him. He's not going to be given away free and the names that it would require are not names I think should be moved.

Yeah but let's save that space for the elite talents that we have percolating, not some selfish 27 year old that will be an albatross contract by the time the kids are ready to contend.

[Badgers Nose]

He would get eaten up here too. Better if he goes somewhere with less media attention.

[Caged Great]

If it was Poirier, Raymond and next year's 1st, I'd consider that, but that's as far as I'd be willing to go. (Next year's draft is not nearly as good as this one)

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah but let's save that space for the elite talents that we have percolating, not some selfish 27 year old that will be an albatross contract by the time the kids are ready to contend.

Again, I disagree that it will be anywhere close to an albatross contract. It will be the norm for 30+ goal scorers.

Under the assumption the team could get him without giving up any of the big names (something I don't see as possible). If 4 or 5 years down the road the Flames are in cap trouble because the kids have become elite (a good problem to have), that's where you unfortunately have to trade Kessel. He'll still be just ~30, making 6M a year and likely good for around 30 goals, it wouldn't be hard to find a trading partner.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

If 4 or 5 years down the road the Flames are in cap trouble because the kids have become elite (a good problem to have), that's where you unfortunately have to trade Kessel. He'll still be just ~30, making 6M a year and likely good for around 30 goals, it wouldn't be hard to find a trading partner.

It would be real hard finding a trading partners if he pulls a Heatley. Which isn't at all unlikely.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Geeze, reading this thread you'd think the guy didnt just lead his NHL team in goal scoring for the 7th straight year, while working his way into the top 5 of the NHL ironman list, despite being only 27 years old.

But the Toronto media turns on a guy, and suddenly the public consensus is that he's a useless bum, with the worst contract in the league.

"Wouldn't want him to steal Emile Poirier's spot."

I'm not saying that he's a good fit for the Flames, but seriously. He was named best-forward of the 2014 Olympics. He's an all-world talent.

People hate him because the Toronto media hates him.

I thought it was the contract.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

If it was Poirier, Raymond and next year's 1st, I'd consider that, but that's as far as I'd be willing to go. (Next year's draft is not nearly as good as this one)

Frankly, next year's first is worth more to us, by a long shot.

Just because the Toronto media has forgotten this fact doesn't mean we should: The Flames only just finished year two of our rebuild. We aren't at the point of adding complimentary, even if deeply flawed, players to fill a position of need before going on a big run.

Phil Kessel is a waste of money and a waste of prime assets. And he is the very type of player that can drag a young team down in the depths. A lazy player who will play his game and his game only, damned be the team's needs. Kessel is capable of singlehandedly undermining everything Hartley has built in the last two years. Even at 30g 70pts, he's not worth it.

[Enoch Root]

Still a very reasonable chance that next year's 1st is a lottery pick - and the top 3 picks will all be drawn by lottery.

Can you imagine watching the Leafs get a top 3 pick at the expense of the Flames while we have 'I don't like that breakout, I'll do it my way' Kessel at $8m?

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Please tell me you did not just make a positive comparison between Phil Kessel and Marian Hossa...

Two-time Stanley Cup-winning Marian Hossa...
Future Hall-of-Famer Marian Hossa...
No. nine-in-scoring all-time European born and drafted player Marian Hossa...

Wasn't talking about talent or careers. I was talking about the role he would play on the Flames. It would be similar to Hossa's in Chicago IMO.

[cam_wmh]

Poirier + 2nd ?
Kessel @ $5.6m

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Wasn't talking about talent or careers. I was talking about the role he would play on the Flames. It would be similar to Hossa's in Chicago IMO.

Hossa plays defense.

And helps his team win games.

He plays a game of which Kessel is unfamiliar

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It would be real hard finding a trading partners if he pulls a Heatley. Which isn't at all unlikely.

Why is it not unlikely? Removing attitude and injuries, there's still the fact that Heatley played with Alfredsson and Spezza and Thornton and Marleau while Kessel had had Bozak and whoever else they decide gets to ride his coattails.

You're right that he could regress, but that holds true for every player...

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Wasn't talking about talent or careers. I was talking about the role he would play on the Flames. It would be similar to Hossa's in Chicago IMO.

Hossa's biggest contribution is his two way play, not his scoring. They are almost polar opposites

[kehatch]

Kessel is one of the top goal scorers in the NHL and he is being paid accordingly.

But the time isn't right for Calgary to make this move. Kessel is the kind of player you add to a great team to make it an elite team. He isn't the kind of guy you add to a rebuilding core. That is why Toronto is considering moving him.

We don't know enough about our future core to know what we need. We don't know enough about our future cap to know if Kessel fits. Plus it will cost us one of our young core pieces to acquire him, and that is moving us backwards.

[delayedreflex]

I'm kind of curious whether the Flames staff would be able to whip him into shape. He's a top 10 scoring RW in the league as is, so you'd think if the Flames could get him to buy into their program he could at least maintain that status if not improve on it.

I'd probably do Granlund + Klimchuk + 2016 first for Kessel @ $5.5 million ($2.5 million retained by TO) - that gives TO quite a few chips for their rebuild coming from areas of relative depth in our prospect base.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Hossa's biggest contribution is his two way play, not his scoring. They are almost polar opposites

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Hossa plays defense.

And helps his team win games.

He plays a game of which Kessel is unfamiliar

I mean he'd be an elite depth player... Sorry should have clarified that.

Obviously they play different styles.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I mean he'd be an elite depth player... Sorry should have clarified that.

Obviously they play different styles.

Would you consider Taylor Hall to be an elite depth player?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Would you consider Taylor Hall to be an elite depth player?

No question Hall is an elite offensive talent.
Will be interesting to see if a real coach can make him less a liability in his own zone.
That is debatable, the talent isn't

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Would you consider Taylor Hall to be an elite depth player?

For me it depends on what team he's playing on. On the Flames yes because he wouldn't be the guy we build around. On the Oilers no, I consider him part of their core (that could change with McDavid though).

Same thing applies with Kessel. In Toronto I would consider him a core player but here I wouldn't consider him a core player.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Would you consider Taylor Hall to be an elite depth player?

I think that's pretty accurate really. Taylor is an elite talent in the league, but I would be very leery of building a team around him. If he is the best player on your team (same with Kessel) I can't see your team having a lot of success.

In both cases you would need an elite two-way center to balance their deficiencies in order to have team success. Both players will get tons of individual accolades though.