Why is France called an Ally of the US?

[mykalberta]

I was reading the "Anti-US" thread and while watching the news, FNC, BBCW, CNN, CBCNW France is often called an ally to the US and they are talking about the "strained relationships between former allies" - why?

France has never been a real ally to the US in any conflict without UN involvement. Is it simply because of:

(1) WW2 - France gets b!tch slapped by a far superior Germany, the US gets involved with their "war-mongering" (NDP/LIBS) to help their long time friend GBR and as such pushes Germany back and as such US is thought of as France's ally?

(2) NATO - US uses Europe as a buffer between USSR's buffer.

(3) UN Security Council - I have always wondered why France is even on it) WW1/2 and post they have never been a military power. Maybe it was another move to try to over power the USSR post WW2 with like minded nations?

All 3 "relationships" seem to me like relationship(s) of coincidence - France's US embassy give a couple of sugar-coated reasons none of which seem to do more than cloud the question with classic fluffly flowers and no actual evidence.

Does anyone have any information as to why they are considered allies? There are no real historical ties like there are with GBR and the colonies, Japan etc. Is it simply because the type of society we live in, if we are not at war we are allies?

MYK

[CaramonLS]

France assisted the US in gaining independence from Great Britian in the War of Independence.

Didn't Mel Gibson teach you anything in the Patriot?

[Lombogirl]

Why are any countries true allies with the US? The US is the biggest superpower in the world. You don't exactly want to pi$$ them off. Regardless of why USA popped into WWII to save the day is irrelevant. France would've been screwed without them.

[Claeren]

Security Council:

USA
England

France




China

Russia




That is why France is an ally.

In terms of their right to the council, remember that they are one of the world's largest militaries, one of the first and major nuclear nations, have extensive military hardward and proprietory technology including jets and aircraft carriers, have one of the world's largest economies, not os long ago had extensive colonial holdings, and that much of the world still speaks french as a first or second language.

Which other countries would qualify? Japan and Germany don't quite fit although they likely will over time. India and Brazil are growing but neither is there yet. ??

Lastly, just because France often takes a strong individual ('3rd way') view on issues does not mean they are not an ally. They just have their own state affairs to look after and their own cultural outlook on things and their own political realities to deal with. For example: They may agree with an American initiative in principle but public support for that issue could result in massive public uprisings, etc. Just because they are not America's/Bushies bitch (alla Mr.Harper and Mr.Blair) does not mean they are not more or less aligned over the long term.

Claeren.

[White Doors]

We're bushes bitch? wow? when did that happen?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by White Doors

We're bushes bitch? wow? when did that happen?

When Harper won the election

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

When Harper won the election

What's pathetic though, is that as much as Harper has been trying to pay lip service to the U.S. and has come out in support of the U.S., Bush still hasn't acknowledged Harper in anyway. When are they going to learn?


Back on topic:

As for why France is considered an ally of the U.S., maybe you should ask the U.S. why they tried so hard to get France on board for the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Answer that question, and you'll aswer the question as to why they are considered an ally.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

When Harper won the election

Really? Wow! Can you by a lapel pin with that on it you think? That would be cool! We vote conservative and 'whamo!' we are bush's Bitches! that's neat!

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

What's pathetic though, is that as much as Harper has been trying to pay lip service to the U.S. and has come out in support of the U.S., Bush still hasn't acknowledged Harper in anyway. When are they going to learn?


Back on topic:

As for why France is considered an ally of the U.S., maybe you should ask the U.S. why they tried so hard to get France on board for the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Answer that question, and you'll aswer the question as to why they are considered an ally.

I don't think Harper really cares if Bush acknowledges him or not, in fact, he is probably asking Bush to keep it 'low profile' lest he get knee-jerk anti american slike you guys calling him Bush's bitch.

But then again, I'm sure this is all just you guys being ****ed off that Layton didn't pull off an upset eh?

[RougeUnderoos]

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

That was funny!!!

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Lombogirl

Why are any countries true allies with the US? The US is the biggest superpower in the world. You don't exactly want to pi$$ them off. Regardless of why USA popped into WWII to save the day is irrelevant. France would've been screwed without them.

USA was not involved in WWII UNTIL Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. They did not jump in to save the day or to rescue France!!! They jumped in pure and simple because part of their nation was bombed.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by redforever

USA was not involved in WWII UNTIL Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. They did not jump in to save the day or to rescue France!!! They jumped in pure and simple because part of their nation was bombed.

They sure didn't help the effort along at all, did they?

Lend for Lease program if I remember correctly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by White Doors

I don't think Harper really cares if Bush acknowledges him or not, in fact, he is probably asking Bush to keep it 'low profile' lest he get knee-jerk anti american slike you guys calling him Bush's bitch.

But then again, I'm sure this is all just you guys being ****ed off that Layton didn't pull off an upset eh?

You can't be serious!

You seriously believe that Harper doesn't care if Bush acknowledges him or not? There is ignorant, and then there is you. Either you have no idea about the concept of "left wing" vs. "right wing" or you are just blowing smoke out of your ass.

Of corse Harper wants to make buddy buddy with Bush, why do you think they elected who they did as U.N. ambassador? Why do you think Harper met with Bush and Fox two months after being elected? Why do you think Harper actually said he was going to work on Canada-U.S. relations?

I wish all you fascists would quit discrediting us intelligent people with your "anti-american" banter. You probably would've called us anti-German during the Holocaust too, just to try to tarnish our reputations.

What I would like to know, is what happened to your memory and what the conservatives did to this country during the late 80's early 90's. Is it that long ago that the name "Mulrooney" or better yet, "Campbell" does not intice a sick feeling in your stomach? Does the national debt, GST, or scandal (which, was much worse than under Martin - we're talking cabinet ministers here) ring a bell?

Yes, but continue disregarding anything intelligent. Yes, that's it. We must still be upset about Layton... Therefor our criticisms must be void. Heaven forbid you actually post something that is intelligent or academic rather than just name-calling.

Read a book, man.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

Of corse Harper wants to make buddy buddy with Bush, why do you think they elected who they did as U.N. ambassador? Why do you think Harper met with Bush and Fox two months after being elected? Why do you think Harper actually said he was going to work on Canada-U.S. relations?

Yeah, Harper definitely cares. Just look at the guy when he and Bush are in the same room together. It was funny watching the media highlights of the recent G8 meeting. Harper hangs off of his every word and just stares at him all the time. You can tell that he wants very badly to be in Bush's circle.

For the record, I actually like Harper in some ways and I wouldn't mind if he stayed PM after the next election, but I do think he is a brown noser.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

Of corse Harper wants to make buddy buddy with Bush, why do you think they elected who they did as U.N. ambassador? Why do you think Harper met with Bush and Fox two months after being elected? Why do you think Harper actually said he was going to work on Canada-U.S. relations?

I would expect any good PM to do all of those things regardless of the party or political standing.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

Why do you think Harper met with Bush and Fox two months after being elected?

The meeting with Bush and Fox was a meeting of the leaders of the 3 NAFTA nations. As you said, it was 2 months after the election, so it would be safe to assume it was organized while Martin was PM, and Martin would have attended had he still been PM. Has Harper attended a disproportionate number of meetings with Bush compared to Chretien or Martin while they were PM?

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

Why do you think Harper actually said he was going to work on Canada-U.S. relations?

Why did Martin say that he was going to work on improving Canada-US relations when he was elected? I'm sure Harper's reasons are the same as Martin's. Chretien did a ****-poor job of managing our relations with our largest and most important trading partner, so someone needed to improve them.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

You can't be serious!

You seriously believe that Harper doesn't care if Bush acknowledges him or not? There is ignorant, and then there is you. Either you have no idea about the concept of "left wing" vs. "right wing" or you are just blowing smoke out of your ass.

Of corse Harper wants to make buddy buddy with Bush, why do you think they elected who they did as U.N. ambassador? Why do you think Harper met with Bush and Fox two months after being elected? Why do you think Harper actually said he was going to work on Canada-U.S. relations?

I wish all you fascists would quit discrediting us intelligent people with your "anti-american" banter. You probably would've called us anti-German during the Holocaust too, just to try to tarnish our reputations.

What I would like to know, is what happened to your memory and what the conservatives did to this country during the late 80's early 90's. Is it that long ago that the name "Mulrooney" or better yet, "Campbell" does not intice a sick feeling in your stomach? Does the national debt, GST, or scandal (which, was much worse than under Martin - we're talking cabinet ministers here) ring a bell?

Yes, but continue disregarding anything intelligent. Yes, that's it. We must still be upset about Layton... Therefor our criticisms must be void. Heaven forbid you actually post something that is intelligent or academic rather than just name-calling.

Read a book, man.

Are you clueless? Ever heard of NAFTA? NORAD?
These are things that our former jokers in office forgot to take care of while they were busy skimming millions of taxpayers dollers. Go back to your little pen pusher UN job and stay there.

Maybe read a book while you are there. You do know that Harper's Conservatives differ ALOT from Mulroney's Tories? Or do you know the difference between neo-liberalism and Tory Conservatism? I normally don't throw out the insults around here (I've seen you do it enough around here) but you are such a brainless ideologue it shocks me.

And while you are about the GST, what do you think about Harper lowering it by 1%? Cosying up to the Americans? Because in your world, I'm sure that high taxes = Canadian.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by peter12

Are you clueless? Ever heard of NAFTA? NORAD?
These are things that our former jokers in office forgot to take care of while they were busy skimming millions of taxpayers dollers. Go back to your little pen pusher UN job and stay there.

Maybe read a book while you are there. You do know that Harper's Conservatives differ ALOT from Mulroney's Tories? Or do you know the difference between neo-liberalism and Tory Conservatism? I normally don't throw out the insults around here (I've seen you do it enough around here) but you are such a brainless ideologue it shocks me.

And while you are about the GST, what do you think about Harper lowering it by 1%? Cosying up to the Americans? Because in your world, I'm sure that high taxes = Canadian.

peter12 = (I've always wanted to use that smiley)

Your childish posts never cease to amaze me.

You know, you can just sit there and use insults time after time to try and hammer your point across, or you can maybe try getting your point across by providing some proof, some research, an opinion, ANYTHING. Name-calling is a sign of weakness and frustration. Even your name-calling techniques are poor at best; "brainless ideologue" ... my cat calls me worse things when she wants milk.

Give it up man, you're just insulting yourself!

What do I think about the GST? I think it was the tories that installed the GST in the first place, so who better to lower it than... the tories. That 1%, that is going to save me maybe $5 this year, is probably going to cost future generations thousands as the deficit is inevitably going to rocket as it did with the last tories.

peter12, I think the Romper Room has a forum you might be a little more cut out for...

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

peter12 = (I've always wanted to use that smiley)

Your childish posts never cease to amaze me.

You know, you can just sit there and use insults time after time to try and hammer your point across, or you can maybe try getting your point across by providing some proof, some research, an opinion, ANYTHING. Name-calling is a sign of weakness and frustration. Even your name-calling techniques are poor at best; "brainless ideologue" ... my cat calls me worse things when she wants milk.

Give it up man, you're just insulting yourself!

What do I think about the GST? I think it was the tories that installed the GST in the first place, so who better to lower it than... the tories. That 1%, that is going to save me maybe $5 this year, is probably going to cost future generations thousands as the deficit is inevitably going to rocket as it did with the last tories.

peter12, I think the Romper Room has a forum you might be a little more cut out for...

I imagine you're closer in thought to my politics than to peters, but this is a terrible post, and is going to be eaten alive just like your last one was. And it should be.