[News] With the 21st overall pick Flames select C Mark Jankowski

[FAN]

When it comes to draft picks, it seems easy to forget the circumstances surrounding the pick.

Jankowski was a legitimate pick at #21 if the team wanted to draft a forward. He had high upside and was considered a project. Immediate contributions was never expected of him. The fact that he is still in college and not in the NHL like some other prospects shouldn't be a surprise. His lack of development and domination of the college ranks is a bit worrisome at this point. The biggest issues for us fans was that Maata was the consensus highest rated guy on the board at the time and Girgensons and Teravainen were the guys the Flames were bypassing by trading down. THOSE were the choices facing management at the time.

In terms of scouting Jankowski itself, please don't say that it doesn't matter because those responsible have been fired. Button was the guy who first scouted Jankowski and got Weisbrod to go out to the middle of nowhere and watch him play.

The 2012 draft was considered, at the time, a very successful draft for the Flames if it is true that Jankowski was the guy they targeted even with the 14th pick and they had Sieloff ranked pretty highly.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

People can be upset about the decision making that came to that conclusion...of course we can.

The same decision making process led to the Flames drafting Poirier instead of Shrinkydink a year later, yet no one is bumping that thread to complain about it.

[Red Menace]

Originally Posted by getbak

The same decision making process led to the Flames drafting Poirier instead of Shrinkydink a year later, yet no one is bumping that thread to complain about it.

I am not saying every decision made was bad, many were great.
I think it is legitimate (and very common) to discuss those where we feel mistakes were made.
I don't expect the organization to bat 1.000, but attention will certainly be focused on 1st round picks....especially considering the plight of the organization in 2012.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Lack of development? Not true in the slightest. That's a very poor thing to say.

Button sending Weisbrod to the middle of nowhere? Do you think the Flames were the only team to scout him all year or something?

My point was, the guys that oversold the pick to the media are the ones gone.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

I am not saying every decision made was bad, many were great.
I think it is legitimate (and very common) to discuss those where we feel mistakes were made.
I don't expect the organization to bat 1.000, but attention will certainly be focused on 1st round picks....especially considering the plight of the organization in 2012.

The problem is the "mistake" has been discussed much more than the player. In every thread he's talked about, the circumstances around his selection appear.

It's 2015 it's been discussed.

[Red Menace]

because Teravainen is starring in the Stanley Cup and Jankowski is still far from a sure thing to ever crack the Flames lineup.
This entire forum is basically 80% posts of people second guessing decisions made by the organization, whether it is draft picks, ice-time etc. This is because we are all passionate Flames fans and care enough to discuss the minutiae of decisions made 3 years ago.
I'm not sure what you expect?
If you are tired of the conversation, just ignore the thread.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

because Teravainen is starring in the Stanley Cup and Jankowski is still far from a sure thing to ever crack the Flames lineup.
This entire forum is basically 80% posts of people second guessing decisions made by the organization, whether it is draft picks, ice-time etc. This is because we are all passionate Flames fans and care enough to discuss the minutiae of decisions made 3 years ago.
I'm not sure what you expect?
If you are tired of the conversation, just ignore the thread.

Problem is this issue pops up every time Jankowski is mentioned. It's not as simple as ignoring "the thread".

[Huntingwhale]

[Bingo]

At the time I didn't know a thing about Jankowski and it worried me, but I loved the addition of the 2nd round pick and Sieloff as a result.

Then Sieloff moves to the OHL and starts taking kids apart with open ice hitting and it was looking like a good move regardless of how Jankowski panned. His making the world junior team was another success.

Shame he got hurt and stunted his development as Jankowski as a third liner and Sieloff as a 4/5 defensemen together would have been just fine.

The thing that bugged me the most was the proclamations of being the smartest guys on the draft floor.

Hopefully Jankowski does the same thing Hayes does in the show, and Sieloff gets back on track.

My rule of thumb to avoid hindsight it to always look at the two guys taken after the guy they took. In this case it's more complicated with the moved down.

At 14
Girgensons (the pick)
Ceci
Wilson

at 21
Jankowski
Matheson
M. Subban

[tvp2003]

I would love it if the Flames did the "Full Jankowski" and picked David in this year's draft. He was ranked the 188th skater by central scouting so to pick him in the 4th round should cause sufficient outrage within CP.

In fact, can we start a new David Jankowski thread now? I'm ready to label him a bust already...

Originally Posted by timbit

Eric Foley has huge upside regardless of being a Friar.

Apparently it depends on what he picks as his major.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm with those that really wish this prospect could just stand on his own on a go forward basis and the leave the selection order and moving down out of it.

But every pick will always be viewed in context of his relative draft position.
My favourite is Trevor Kidd over Martin Brodeur? But Hindsight always provides the answer, and what is ridiculous is the constant 'should have's' regarding any player still developing.
Pile on the MJ pick 3-5 years from now, if you want. But not now.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by FAN

When it comes to draft picks, it seems easy to forget the circumstances surrounding the pick.
...
The biggest issues for us fans was that Maata was the consensus highest rated guy on the board at the time and Girgensons and Teravainen were the guys the Flames were bypassing by trading down. THOSE were the choices facing management at the time.
....

Rightly or wrongly (and obviously some of the posters believe wrongly) the scouting staff and GM felt that the "consensus highest rated" players were not likely to have the same upside as Jankowski, whom they expected would take longer to develop than some of the choices that were available. It's still too early to say their choice has no chance of being a good one, and this is hardly the first time a scouting staff has passed over players who later turn out to be solid NHLers. However, the time to argue the merits of the Flames' decision has long passed. That flogged dead horse should have decayed to dust by now.

[Red Menace]

I agree with the comments about hindsight....but this was a comment/evaluation that was made immediately by many hockey observers on the draft day.
It's okay to admit that the flames made mistakes.
Doesn't mean we aren't pulling for Jankowski to make it.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

The annoying thing though is that the Chicago Blackhawks....The Flames .... They got a prospect who is about to play a fourth year in college.

... I am going to chalk this up to the Blackhawks doing what they do at the draft ...

Who drafted Kevin Hayes at the draft? How many years in college did Hayes play?

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

I agree with the comments about hindsight....but this was a comment/evaluation that was made immediately by many hockey observers on the draft day.
It's okay to admit that the flames made mistakes.
Doesn't mean we aren't pulling for Jankowski to make it.

See... You keep looking for people to admit the Flames made a mistake, when NOBODY knows if the pick was a mistake or not yet. He hasn't turned pro. As Eldrick said above, this pick should be analyzed later on down the road.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

because Teravainen is starring in the Stanley Cup and Jankowski is still far from a sure thing to ever crack the Flames lineup.

See, there is the biggest problem in this thread. Teravainen is NOT starring in the finals. He has been almost invisible the entire playoffs, while playing with damn good talent. He scores a seeing eye shot from a bad shooting lane, and gets a phantom assist on the give away, and all of a sudden he's a star player responsible for carrying the Hawks to the finals. That last statement is not hyperbole either. When someone has the balls to say that player X is the star of the team that means they are the guy carrying the club on his back. Teravainen has barely been able to carry his own jock since coming to North America, but now he's a star. His contribution has been grossly overblown. He was expected to be a scorer and he isn't doing any of that. Not at the AHL level, and not at the NHL level. A long range shot the goaltender has yet to see, thanks to the hard work in the dirty areas by his line mates, doesn't impress.

On the other side of the discussion you have a guy whose contribution is being measured by his point production, when he is cast in a role where he is not expected to score. Jankowski does everything that his coaches ask him to do and is successful at it. The guy makes the tournament all star team after being the go-to defensive guy who just happened to score some really big goals along the way. Character guy with a lot of good things working in his advantage, including skill and size, a combination this team has been lacking for a long time.

The most important thing to realize is the draft is not about selecting the guy that gets to the NHL the fastest, it's selecting the guy that will contribute the most to your team and have the longest career. I think the Flames have drafted a kid that will provide a great return for the team in the long run. I support them for their decision to skip Tervainen as he reminds me way too much of the player they drafted the year before, and have just moved on from.

[Red Menace]

Well, there has been 1 game in the Stanley Cup so far, and TT was 1st star.

[Samuelsson]

Originally Posted by New Era

See, there is the biggest problem in this thread. Teravainen is NOT starring in the finals. He has been almost invisible the entire playoffs, while playing with damn good talent. He scores a seeing eye shot from a bad shooting lane, and gets a phantom assist on the give away, and all of a sudden he's a star player responsible for carrying the Hawks to the finals. That last statement is not hyperbole either. When someone has the balls to say that player X is the star of the team that means they are the guy carrying the club on his back. Teravainen has barely been able to carry his own jock since coming to North America, but now he's a star. His contribution has been grossly overblown. He was expected to be a scorer and he isn't doing any of that. Not at the AHL level, and not at the NHL level. A long range shot the goaltender has yet to see, thanks to the hard work in the dirty areas by his line mates, doesn't impress.

On the other side of the discussion you have a guy whose contribution is being measured by his point production, when he is cast in a role where he is not expected to score. Jankowski does everything that his coaches ask him to do and is successful at it. The guy makes the tournament all star team after being the go-to defensive guy who just happened to score some really big goals along the way. Character guy with a lot of good things working in his advantage, including skill and size, a combination this team has been lacking for a long time.

The most important thing to realize is the draft is not about selecting the guy that gets to the NHL the fastest, it's selecting the guy that will contribute the most to your team and have the longest career. I think the Flames have drafted a kid that will provide a great return for the team in the long run. I support them for their decision to skip Tervainen as he reminds me way too much of the player they drafted the year before, and have just moved on from.

See, what you've done here is make sense, and that is absolutely not allowed.

[heep223]

The bottom line is that TT is an NHLer now who is contributing in the playoffs. Jankowski is still in college and is not contributing to the Flames in any way. That does not mean that TT will be better than Janko in a few years. We knew Janko would be a longer term project. Is anyone surprised?

We really need more time to evaluate this.

[Red Menace]

Are any of you guys seriously trying to tell me you wouldn't trade Jankowski and Seiloff for Teravainen tomorrow?
I am very sure the Hawks would laugh in our faces.