How is this not fraud? And how to get contact info from Drivers Licence number?

[Jason14h]

I'm confused here. So he initiated a chargeback with his CC company?

You can challenge the chargeback and attempt to prove he made the charge with Visa/Mastercard.

They may rule against you but any merchant can challenge a chargeback.

If they have told you that you can't contest/rules against you, there is nothing you can do.

[vanisleflamesfan]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Umm... was this pencil rubbing method ever legitimate when using CC imprints was the norm?

I think the guy got lucky as I have never heard of using a pencil rubbing for a CC payment

Never heard of that? I guess you didn't spend much time in cat houses in the 80s.

Anyway, what are you/ were you planning to do with his address? Go there and break his knees? Or his thumbs?

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

Never heard of that? I guess you didn't spend much time in cat houses in the 80s.

Anyway, what are you/ were you planning to do with his address? Go there and break his knees? Or his thumbs?

I'm not old enough to know about that...

[Rathji]

When I delivered pizza, in the mid-90s, we used to take rubbing using a pen. We were not supposed to do it, but when we showed up a a guy's place and all he had was the card (and we didn't notice he was paying with CC or he didn't tell us), we would do a rubbing to avoid having to make a double trip.

on the DL#, you cant write it down, even if they show you the card, but you can verify that they have a DL and that the info matches.

Challenge the chargeback if you like, but it wont matter. Eat the loss and make sure it doesn't happen again.

[Smartcar]

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

Anyway, what are you/ were you planning to do with his address? Go there and break his knees? Or his thumbs?

LOL never thought of that. I need it to file/serve my statement of claim.

[jtfrogger]

If I did business with your company, and you demanded to write down my driver's licence number in that situation, I would be reporting you to the Office of the Information and Privacy Commissioner of Alberta. The amount of effort you would take to deal with the issue would probably be worth more than $190 to you. Not that I would try to be punitive. I simply would not want you to record this information. And sometimes the only way to get companies to stop being invasive, is to report it. If someone were to steal this information from use and use it for identity theft, then you and the customer would be in very serious trouble.

I would not dispute the charge. The person that did that (assuming it was in fact the same person that was in your store), is also very much in the wrong.

See here for the Alberta OIPC guideline. Simply put, having the driver's licence number does not help you deter fraud, detect fraud or recover assets, so it is not reasonable to collect in the situation you describe: http://www.oipc.ab.ca/Content_Files/...s_Dec_2_08.pdf

It sucks that the credit card company has the policy of not defending a charge if you don't use the proper imprinting machine. But if you followed their policy with the machine that you should have, you would have your money. This is true even if you did not record the driver's licence information. If you continue to take pencil rubbings, this is a risk that you take. If you continue to write down driver's licence information, you put your customers identify information at risk because of your own sloppy business practice.

[ResAlien]

Before reading this thread I had no idea a drivers license number was such devastatingly sensitive information. How's what the OP did any different than having to write your DL# on a cheque? I've had to do that before and didn't find an issue. Is this an identity theft worry or something?

[jtfrogger]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Before reading this thread I had no idea a drivers license number was such devastatingly sensitive information. How's what the OP did any different than having to write your DL# on a cheque? I've had to do that before and didn't find an issue. Is this an identity theft worry or something?

Yes, my concern is with identity theft. Having the DL# in addition to a credit card number make it much easier to commit identity theft. And it does not give the retailer any more security writing it down.

I've never had my driver's license written on a cheque, but in all honesty, I hardly ever use a cheque. I usually use a credit card, because it generally offers the most protection. And as a bonus, I also get a small portion back from my credit card company.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I imagine it's the same as going to a bar where they scan IDs at the door. If you don't want them having your information the onus is on you not to share it.

The onus is on the business, they're not allowed to record it.

[Red Potato Standing By]

So even if you consent to giving the business your DL number a business still can't record it?

[vanisleflamesfan]

Originally Posted by flameswin

The onus is on the business, they're not allowed to record it.

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

So even if you consent to giving the business your DL number a business still can't record it?

They can ask, they can't force you provide it. If you provide it, they can record it. They can't use it in any way other than what they recorded it for, they can't give it away, and they are required to protect it.

[jtfrogger]

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

So even if you consent to giving the business your DL number a business still can't record it?

It depends on the business. For example, banks record this information. In fact, they are often required to do so by law.

There are a few key things with regards to personal information:

• They must have a legitimate and defensible business reason for doing so. The reason given in the OP was not (in my opinion) legitimate.
• They must be declare why and how it is being used
• They must not use it for any other purpose
• They must protect any personal information

I challenged a bank the first time I opened an account after the legislation was passed, and they were able to satisfy all of this.

[Northendzone]

how many refills of ranch suace did this diner demand?

[hatty]

For the OP, we had the same issue, but it was someone that was using a fake credit card, and we checked the drivers license, to make sure the name matched the card, and everything, and a month later we were charged back and after we spoke with our the company that handles our visa/mc machines and visa themselves, they more or less said that we cannot prove we had the card in our possession, in which it puts us on the hook for. We now don't accept any cards without a working chip/pin, as that is the only way to guarantee the safety of a retailer without any charge back costs.

[rain_e]

So it is legal for bars to scan peoples DL's as they enter?

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by rain_e

So it is legal for bars to scan peoples DL's as they enter?

Thats a police sponsered program. The info is for Police officers to review if criminal activity takes place.

[spetch]

I've gotten taken with a scam with stolen CC and punching them in manually. Basically I got screwed and would lose the appeal (yes you can appeal the chargeback, sounds like u might have a good case if you have video evidence on the person handing a card over).

Now in order to stop this I can enter the visa/billing information online through my provider (moneris). Basically works like a secure online store transaction with verifies the Visa/MC through the billing address. This way if there is a chargeback I have a leg to stand on.

[Smartcar]

Originally Posted by jtfrogger

If I did business with your company, and you demanded to write down my driver's licence number in that situation, I would be reporting you to the Office of the Information and Privacy Commissioner of Alberta. The amount of effort you would take to deal with the issue would probably be worth more than $190 to you. Not that I would try to be punitive. I simply would not want you to record this information.

I doubt that you would ever be in that situation because one thing I neglected to mention in my OP is that he didn't have another way of paying. So we could have called the police and had him charged (under Sec 364 of the Criminal Code of Canada), we have done it twice in the past, and yes they do take them away in the police car. But we thought we were safe since the photo and name on the drivers licence matched and the card was approved when we entered it manually. But the police said it doesn't apply if he leaves after paying and then contests it with Visa, in that case it's a civil matter and I have to sue him.

The link you posted was from 2008 and was intended for retailers. It doesn't apply because obviously a retailer can refuse to part with merchandise if the method of payment is unsatisfactory. The current legislation allows the collection of personal information with consent and its use for purposes which are reasonable. So I think taking down the drivers licence number for the purpose of protecting myself from a potentially fraudulent card would comply, even if you don't agree, and as it turned out, didn't offer any protection.

But IMO, if you did business with me, incurred charges, had no other way to pay and refused to show me ID to prove the damaged credit card was actually yours I don't think it would be worth it for you either.

[Smartcar]

Originally Posted by rain_e

So it is legal for bars to scan peoples DL's as they enter?

Yes, if they have consent and will only use the information for reasonable purposes:

PERSONAL INFORMATION PROTECTION ACT

7(1) Except where this Act provides otherwise, an organization shall not, with respect to personal information about an individual,
(a) collect that information unless the individual consents to the collection of that information,
...
11(1) An organization may collect personal information only for purposes that are reasonable.
(2) Where an organization collects personal information, it may do so only to the extent that is reasonable for meeting the purposes for which the information is collected
...
16(1) An organization may use personal information only for purposes that are reasonable.
(2) Where an organization uses personal information, it may do so only to the extent that is reasonable for meeting the purposes for which the information is used.

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/1266.cfm?pa...4&display=html

If you enter a bar and let them scan your drivers licence you're consenting.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Smartcar

Yes, if they have consent and will only use the information for reasonable purposes:

PERSONAL INFORMATION PROTECTION ACT

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/1266.cfm?pa...4&display=html

If you enter a bar and let them scan your drivers licence you're consenting.

Eg: Bar watch It provides proof the I.D. card is legitimate, I.d violent offenders and provides info to police incase you commit a crime and flee from the scene of the bar.