Should airlines start including etiquette brochures next to the safety cards in seat?

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I can't believe people who say it's not noticable how much less space you have in an airplane seat when the person in front or you reclines. I'm only 6'1", and I dread someone in front of me trying to recline their seat. Every once in a while, i need to move my legs a bit, and I can barely do that with the seats up, never mind reclined.

I never recline my own seat, because I dont want to be a Jerk.

[polak]

The vortex is one thing but let me share to you the worst experience I've ever had on a flight.

So 4 days before I leave Poland to fly home, I get strep throat. Awesome. I'm feverish and have a throat that won't stop hurting, but the worst part for the flight was a runny nose that needed wiping what seemed like every minute. Luckily, my symptoms did get slightly better before I left and I was able to overload on advil and the fever and sore throat weren't too bad of an issue. The runny nose was also better but still needed plenty of attention.

No worries, I booked an aisle seat and bought 5 packs of tissues at the airport before my flight.

So I sit down and in my row is an older gentlemen looking out the window and an even older looking old lady sitting in the middle. As I sit down, the older lady (I'd say in her 70's at least) asks me, in broken english and poor hand gestures, if she could switch with me. I think to myself, I already have the tissues, I'm a fine flyer who has never had any issues with sitting in the middle, screw it, I'll let the old lady have the aisle seat. We take off and a few minutes into the flight I need to blow my nose so I open the 5-pack of tissues, take out the first pack and to my horror, these tissues felt like sand paper. They were the worst tissues I've ever felt on my nose in my life. I suck it up and blow my nose. Few minutes later,I have to blow my nose again. I suck it up and blow my nose. Well surprise, surprise, after the 6th or 7th time of doing this, my nose is starting to get extremely cut up and irritated, just like I'm sure everyone has experienced after a bad cold with crappy tissues, but instead of getting irritated in a day or so, my nose was in hell within the span of an hour or so. I couldn't do it anymore. I needed normal tissue or toilet paper or something.

Problem is, the damn old lady has now fallen asleep and has her knees spread out and I'm forced to awkwardly straddle this old lady in order to get up and go the washroom to blow my nose like a civilized human being. I obviously take as many of the tissues from the washroom as I can and stuff them in my pocket, straddle the old lady again and return to my seat. I get up to restock on tissues a couple more times before the old lady wakes up and much to my dismay, starts chit chatting away in German and sharing stuff with the man in the window seat. They were clearly together, probably husband and wife.

Now I'm pissed and the whole poor old german lady angle goes out the ####ing window. This stupid f*****g t**t did not get up a single time in the entire flight. NOT ONCE. Not only that but she was constantly passing ipads and head phones and pillows back and forth to her husband across me. WHY THE #### DID YOU SWITCH SPOTS WITH ME YOU OLD HAG!?

On top of not getting up once to use the washroom at all, she started to get visibly frustrated with me asking to get up the 2nd time after she awoke from her demon nap. At this point I figured I could probably ask a flight attendant for a box of the slightly higher quality tissues featured in the washrooms (I never ask the flight attendants for anything so I didn't think of it earlier) but I figured this would be my passive aggressive way of teaching this Hitler Youth to not take advantage of kindhearted Canadian men who can't say no to an old lady.

I also got a kick out of her panicking when we were descending and going through some bad weather and the plane was getting tossed around a bit. That brought a bit of joy into my now jaded heart.

I'm probably making a bigger deal out of this than I should, but when you're sick as a dog on vacation and get screwed over like that to top it off, your patience is low.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

There needs to be a security line for veteran/efficient travellers.

O'hare has them (or is it Midway? I can't recall). That's exactly how they are labelled as well. Rookie (including families), frequent and expert.

Prepare for the stinkiest of stink eye if you go in the expert line and don't know WTF you're doing.

[Cappy]

I find it interesting that we speak about etiquette, a code of social behavior, yet many stick to hard-fast rules.

Most forms of etiquette are not required for a purpose other than to conform to the social setting and allow those around to benefit, thus benefiting society as a whole. While some may seem outdated, many forms of etiquette are respectable and continued to this day.

We hold doors open for people, not because the law requires, but because it would benefit the person coming behind who may be hit or inconvenienced by a closing door. We say excuse me as an audible and polite way to inform someone that they are in their way. We do not take a dump in a bag and bring it back to the dining table in front of guest.

On an airplane, the prevailing etiquette is that the middle seat gets both arm rests, for the benefit of the person in the middle seat. There is no rule as such, it is just something that has been granted to make flying on a plain a little less combative and to show that human beings are still sensible.

However, despite the vast majority of people dreading a reclined seat in front of them, defendants of reclining look past the social conformism and utilitarianism of refraining and thus refer to the rule-book: "the seat reclines so its my right!".

It is your right to recline your seat, the same way as it is my right to take off my sweaty shoes in front of a ton of people in a pressurized compartment 30,000 feet in the air for 5 hours. The fact that a majority of people refrain from such an endeavor based on the common courtesy towards others should atleast reveal some fallacy in the logic of those who insist on reclining their seat despite direct opposition from those behind them.

Just because you could do something doesn't always mean you should.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

For me it's having a laptop on the tray. Makes even more difference at that height.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Three inches means a lot in that tight of a space...

NSFW!

... just ask your GF...

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Cappy

It is your right to recline your seat, the same way as it is my right to take off my sweaty shoes in front of a ton of people in a pressurized compartment 30,000 feet in the air for 5 hours. The fact that a majority of people refrain from such an endeavor based on the common courtesy towards others should atleast reveal some fallacy in the logic of those who insist on reclining their seat despite direct opposition from those behind them.

Just because you could do something doesn't always mean you should.

I don't think that is being said. People may read that into my comments and I suppose that's fine. I don't believe I have ever said do it no matter what. If there is a legitimate reason not to than you don't. You don't recline willy nilly. you don't do it without looking. You make sure you aren't hitting a laptop or something else. You likely even inform the person you are going to do so or would like to. But sorry on any long flight you can not expect a person not to recline the seat. Overnight etc doesn't matter.

By the same token you don't put your knees up and prevent someone from reclining just because you don't want them to. In the end, the person reclining does have the right. It's been made clear by airlines over and over and over that it is the case. And unless you travel on different planes the vast majority of people recline as soon they are allowed to do so they do. Always have and always will. The fallacy in logic isn't occurring with those that recline.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Cappy

It is your right to recline your seat, the same way as it is my right to take off my sweaty shoes in front of a ton of people in a pressurized compartment 30,000 feet in the air for 5 hours.

Well once you take your shoes off they'll only be sweaty for about 5 minutes before they dry out. Shoes are the problem and not the solution!

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by ernie

By the same token you don't put your knees up and prevent someone from reclining just because you don't want them to. In the end, the person reclining does have the right. It's been made clear by airlines over and over and over that it is the case. And unless you travel on different planes the vast majority of people recline as soon they are allowed to do so they do. Always have and always will. The fallacy in logic isn't occurring with those that recline.

I would argue that the logic falls off in both scenarios. But we are also dealing with two small subsets of the problem (the most extreme): those who will recline no matter the resistance, and those who will resist no matter the onslaught.

I definitely await the day airliners no longer offer reclined seats; however, until that day comes, I will continue strategically make my seating choices.

[JonDuke]

Originally Posted by polak

...

So 4 days before I leave Poland to fly home, I get strep throat. Awesome. I'm feverish and have a throat that won't stop hurting, but the worst part for the flight was a runny nose that needed wiping what seemed like every minute. Luckily, my symptoms did get slightly better before I left and I was able to overload on advil and the fever and sore throat weren't too bad of an issue. The runny nose was also better but still needed plenty of attention.
...woe is me, blah blah blah, ...

You must be very proud.
4 days after getting strep throat, you decide to jump in a metal tube with recycled air and selfishly put everyone else at risk of going through the same sore throat and snotty nosed fun you went through.
You're a wonderful human being.

Originally Posted by polak

I'm probably making a bigger deal out of this than I should, but when you're sick as a dog with an contagious disease, you shouldn't go on an airplane and risk ruining other peoples vacation.

FYP
Screw the people who recline, who grab seats when they get up, who have loud or uncontrolled kids:
People like you are the worst type of passenger on a plane.

[Frequitude]

I dislike chatter on an airplane. Talking on a plane at all is extremely selfish and rude and one of the most arrogant things someone can do. I don't understand why people feel the need to talk. Your ability to talk does not have any impact on the quality of your flight. How hard is it to just use a pen and a piece of paper for 4 hours.

Planes aren't designed such that talking noise cannot be heard by anyone else in the cabin. Thats why every flight for me, the first 30 minutes is about noise domination where I put my fist far enough into the person around me's mouth so that if they try to talk it will be muffled. Its an uncomfortable 30 minutes but well worth it.

Its your right to talk just like its my right to fart all trip in a confined pressurized cabin. Because they're the same thing. Doesn't mean I do it.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by united

I don't understand why adults feel the need to recline. I have never reclined and have never had any problem with comfort or sleeping, nor has anyone I've traveled with. The three inches and a few degrees does not make a difference. No, it does not make a difference no matter how much you pretend it does. The only reason to recline is to be inconsiderate to others. No! It does not make a difference. Stop pretending it does.

Sorry, but the chances of me getting sleep in an un-reclined chair is nil. With a reclined chair, it's maybe 40%. Still not great, but worth a shot.

Originally Posted by Cappy

I find it interesting that we speak about etiquette, a code of social behavior, yet many stick to hard-fast rules...
However, despite the vast majority of people dreading a reclined seat in front of them, defendants of reclining look past the social conformism and utilitarianism of refraining and thus refer to the rule-book: "the seat reclines so its my right!".

Personally, I had no idea reclining seats bothered people until I heard about the seat-blocker device on the news a couple years ago. Never bothered me to have the chair in front of me reclined, so I assumed it didn't bother anyone else.

Originally Posted by Cappy

It is your right to recline your seat, the same way as it is my right to take off my sweaty shoes in front of a ton of people in a pressurized compartment 30,000 feet in the air for 5 hours. The fact that a majority of people refrain from such an endeavor based on the common courtesy towards others should atleast reveal some fallacy in the logic of those who insist on reclining their seat despite direct opposition from those behind them.

That's only a valid analogy if planes had bins in them for people to remove their shoes and signs showing them how to do so properly. Also, I find it hilarious that Canadians, of all people, should be disgusted at the notion of people removing their shoes in an airplane, when we demand all guests remove their shoes the moment they set foot in our homes.

If the sentiment against reclining was so strong, airlines would have disabled the buttons by now. They would be dumb to alienate most of their customers needlessly. The fact they haven't suggests to me that anti-incliners aren't anywhere near the overwhelming majority they presume themselves to be.

[Zarley]

If the recline really bothers you, then upgrade to economy plus - it's not that expensive. I'm actually surprised at how many people are anti-recline.

I only recline if I'm going to sleep or want to rest, but it's ridiculous to get angry about people reclining their seat.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If the sentiment against reclining was so strong, airlines would have disabled the buttons by now. They would be dumb to alienate most of their customers needlessly. The fact they haven't suggests to me that anti-incliners aren't anywhere near the overwhelming majority they presume themselves to be.

So true, Why would an airline do something that would piss off their customers?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Cappy

So true, Why would an airline do something that would piss off their customers?

Needlessly. I'm pretty sure you'll find the other things airlines do that piss off customers have a cost/profit motive.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

I dislike chatter on an airplane. Talking on a plane at all is extremely selfish and rude and one of the most arrogant things someone can do. I don't understand why people feel the need to talk. Your ability to talk does not have any impact on the quality of your flight. How hard is it to just use a pen and a piece of paper for 4 hours.

Planes aren't designed such that talking noise cannot be heard by anyone else in the cabin. Thats why every flight for me, the first 30 minutes is about noise domination where I put my fist far enough into the person around me's mouth so that if they try to talk it will be muffled. Its an uncomfortable 30 minutes but well worth it.

Its your right to talk just like its my right to fart all trip in a confined pressurized cabin. Because they're the same thing. Doesn't mean I do it.

While I understand that you are being facetious, you wouldn't be off the mark. Look at the resistance of allowing cell phone use on airplanes. It is usually resisted due to the annoyance of having some loudly talk on their phone the whole time.

But I appreciate the straw man.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Needlessly. I'm pretty sure you'll find the other things airlines do that piss off customers have a cost/profit motive.

To benefit the other half of the customers?

EDIT: Mini poll. 29 people thanked the original anti-recliner whereas only 9 thanked the indifferent/pro-recliner.

This may not be suggestive of the entire population, but it's a pretty good indication that it bothers many people.

[polak]

Originally Posted by JonDuke

You must be very proud.
4 days after getting strep throat, you decide to jump in a metal tube with recycled air and selfishly put everyone else at risk of going through the same sore throat and snotty nosed fun you went through.
You're a wonderful human being.

FYP
Screw the people who recline, who grab seats when they get up, who have loud or uncontrolled kids:
People like you are the worst type of passenger on a plane.

Oh I'm sorry that I chose to be sick. Next time ill just extend my vacation in a country on the other side of the world, pay for more nights in hotels, pay to change my flights and explain this all to my work just cause I got Strep before my flight. Why not? Lets tag on another $1000 dollars to this vacation.

Maybe next time I can give you a shout and you can cover these costs?

I also got turned away at the hospital the night before fyi. So i wasnt seeing a doctor until at least the day of my flight. 24 hrs contagious period after antibiotics so roughly 3 extra days of hotels and work coverage needed.

[ResAlien]

4 days isn't long enough to get on antibiotics before a flight leaves? Yeah thats a total dbag move if you didn't.

[polak]

2 days in Poland. 1 day of travel by car. 1 day when I initially got sick in Hungary.

I did go to the hospital in warsaw and they said they didn't have a doctor who could see me. I even got the concierge to look for clinics around the hotel but thats slim pickings on a Saturday in Poland.