[News] Leafs hire Babcock (8yr contract, $50 million)

[heep223]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

For a stats oriented team - I'd be curious how they justified this giant salary. They are paying him way more than any other coach. Now obviously money doesn't matter as much in Toronto and their is no cap so less opportunity costs, but still seems like shiny object syndrome.

Why shouldn't a coach make as much or more than a star player? The coach is more important than any individual player.

I think this is more the case of the NHL catching up to the rest of pro sports 10 years later, as per usual. This will become the norm as opposed to the exception, as it should be IMO.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by heep223

Why shouldn't a coach make as much or more than a star player? The coach is more important than any individual player.

I think this is more the case of the NHL catching up to the rest of pro sports 10 years later, as per usual. This will become the norm as opposed to the exception, as it should be IMO.

what coaches make as much as the top players in other sports?

[heep223]

Originally Posted by dino7c

what coaches make as much as the top players in other sports?

NFL: Sean Payton ($8 million), Bill Belichick ($7.5 million), Andy Reid ($7.5 million).

NBA: Gregg Popovich ($11 million), Doc Rivers ($10 million), Flip Saunders ($9 million).

The top players in all three leagues make significantly more than the top coaches. But if you look at the coaches salaries as a % of the team's salary cap, Babcock's new contract is pretty much in line with the top coaches in the NFL and the NBA.

I don't see this as an anomaly. I see this as the NHL catching up as their business has grown.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by heep223

NFL: Sean Payton ($8 million), Bill Belichick ($7.5 million), Andy Reid ($7.5 million).

NBA: Gregg Popovich ($11 million), Doc Rivers ($10 million), Flip Saunders ($9 million).

The top players in all three leagues make significantly more than the top coaches. But if you look at the coaches salaries as a % of the team's salary cap, Babcock's new contract is pretty much in line with the top coaches in the NFL and the NBA.

I don't see this as an anomaly. I see this as the NHL catching up as their business has grown.

Well yeah, they don't many anywhere near the top players though...NFL has 10 players that made over 17M last season.

I really don't see this being a trend in the NHL, especially considering there are only a couple teams that would even have the ability to pay that much for a coach. And honestly I think its a terrible idea, who wants to be locked up with one guy for so long?

[heep223]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Well yeah, they don't many anywhere near the top players though...NFL has 10 players that made over 17M last season.

I really don't see this being a trend in the NHL, especially considering there are only a couple teams that would even have the ability to pay that much for a coach. And honestly I think its a terrible idea, who wants to be locked up with one guy for so long?

There are many star players in all three leagues that make more than the top coaches in hindsight. As a concept though I don't see an issue with paying a star coach as much as a star player, and as a % of salary cap Babcock's contract is in line with the other top coaches in other pro leagues.

I agree re: the term, that's the crazy part and can't believe it. The dollar amounts though I think will be the new normal for an elite coach of a large market NHL team and that's how it should be IMO.

[Locke]

Again, as I said a few pages ago the term really doesnt matter.

Once they're tired of him they can just fire him. The money is fairly insignificant in the grand scheme of the operations of a hockey team and the coach will likely get another job afterwards anyways removing the requirement to pay the remainder of the contract and resulting in the original team being compensated with a draft pick.

Having a long term generally guarantees draft pick compensation because if the fired coach gets another job hes technically still under contract.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I was under the impression that Tim Murray was the guy that brought Babcock into pro hockey when they were in Cincinnati....no?


But yes.....the snail comment is bang on. Dude is almost creepy.

Tim Murray was an amateur scout with the Panthers when Babcock was hired in Cincinatti by the Ducks.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by heep223

NFL: Sean Payton ($8 million), Bill Belichick ($7.5 million), Andy Reid ($7.5 million).

NBA: Gregg Popovich ($11 million), Doc Rivers ($10 million), Flip Saunders ($9 million).

The top players in all three leagues make significantly more than the top coaches. But if you look at the coaches salaries as a % of the team's salary cap, Babcock's new contract is pretty much in line with the top coaches in the NFL and the NBA.

I don't see this as an anomaly. I see this as the NHL catching up as their business has grown.

Bill Belichick is criminally underpaid.

[kn]

Soccer:

1. Pep Guardiola - Bayern Munich - $24 million
2. Jose Mourinho - Chelsea - $17 million
3. Marcello Lippi - Guangzho Evergrande - $14 million
4. Louis Van Gaal - Manchester United - $11.75 million
5. Carlo Ancelotti - Real Madrid - $10.5 million

MLB:

1. Mike Scioscia, LA Angels, $5 million
2. Joe Girardi, NY Yankees, $4 million
3. Terry Francona, Cleveland, $3-4 million
4. Buck Showalter, Baltimore, $2.6-$2.9 million
5. Joe Maddon, Tampa, $2 million

These are 2014 numbers based on a quick Google search. I'm not a fan of either sport so have no idea if these managers are still with these teams.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I disagree. Like the Cowboys are America's team the Leafs are Canada's team. Lots of Canadians are indifferent to say the Canucks, Flames, Senators, etc but the majority of Canadians have strong feelings for the Leafs as you either love them or hate them much like the Cowboys in the US.

The Cowboys are Dallas' team. They are Jerry's team. They are not America's team by any means, ask any knowledgeable nfl fan. Patriots Redskins Giants likely have similar fan bases by volume. Packers Bears likely have more committed and more dedicated fan bases by longevity.

Some stupid moniker does not make the cowboys "americas team" any more than babcock proclaiming toronto makes them "Canadas team".

The Leafs are Toronto's team. The Cowboys are Dallas' team. end of story.

[Tinordi]

It's good for the league if Toronto returns to respectability. What they've been doing is paving the way for that outcome but the issue with the franchise is not making a plan, it's committing to the plan.

They're about 4-5 years away. There's basically nothing there.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

It's good for the league if Toronto returns to respectability. What they've been doing is paving the way for that outcome but the issue with the franchise is not making a plan, it's committing to the plan.

They're about 4-5 years away. There's basically nothing there.

Complete hyperbole. Rielly/Nylander/#4 pick this year/#24 pick/Connor Brown.

And they have not traded many pieces yet. And they still have young players like JVR/Kadri they may keep that are good.

[Resolute 14]

So decent but not gamebreaking prospects in Rielly and Nylander, and the 4th pick.

Yeah, there's basically nothing there.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Complete hyperbole. Rielly/Nylander/#4 pick this year/#24 pick/Connor Brown.

And they have not traded many pieces yet. And they still have young players like JVR/Kadri they may keep that are good.

Compare that to the contenders and emerging contenders in this league and they're basically at square one.

Nylander and Reilly are good prospects no doubt. Bernier's a good goalie. Almost everyone else on the roster is not going to be a part of returning Toronto to contender status besides Kessel if he's still around and maybe JVR. But those players in 5 years will be complimentary not core pieces. They need a new elite core. Nylander and Reilly are probably a part of that, but those two players does not a contending core make.

Leafs are 4-5 years away if everything goes right.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Complete hyperbole. Rielly/Nylander/#4 pick this year/#24 pick/Connor Brown.

And they have not traded many pieces yet. And they still have young players like JVR/Kadri they may keep that are good.

They are bottom third in the league in prospect quality entering a rebuild and JVR/Reilly are probably the only young roster players with a bright future.

Pretty bleak man don't kid yourself. Trust me - we've been there. Just be glad that you now have a front office who's committed to doing it right. Draft picks this year will help but who knows how they'll turn out, as with all picks.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

So decent but not gamebreaking prospects in Rielly and Nylander, and the 4th pick.

Yeah, there's basically nothing there.

Nylander was just named the 8th best prospect in the world. Nothing there?

The 4th pick will be very good.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by heep223

They are bottom third in the league in prospect quality entering a rebuild and JVR/Reilly are probably the only young roster players with a bright future.

Pretty bleak man don't kid yourself. Trust me - we've been there. Just be glad that you now have a front office who's committed to doing it right. Draft picks this year will help but who knows how they'll turn out, as with all picks.

They will get very good assets in trades. And Kadri definitely is a roster player with a nice future.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Compare that to the contenders and emerging contenders in this league and they're basically at square one.

Nylander and Reilly are good prospects no doubt. Bernier's a good goalie. Almost everyone else on the roster is not going to be a part of returning Toronto to contender status besides Kessel if he's still around and maybe JVR. But those players in 5 years will be complimentary not core pieces. They need a new elite core. Nylander and Reilly are probably a part of that, but those two players does not a contending core make.

Leafs are 4-5 years away if everything goes right.

So they might be 10 years away? How long are rebuilds?

[heep223]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

They will get very good assets in trades. And Kadri definitely is a roster player with a nice future.

Kadri is the most overrated player on the team (by leafs fans).

As poster above says, likely 4-5 years of pain (as Babcock also said numerous times).

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

So they might be 10 years away? How long are rebuilds?

Well the Leafs are now ten years out from making the playoffs in an 82 game season so... why don't you tell me?