Any handymen out there? I have a basement moisture issue

[MisterJoji]

I want to start developing my basement but I have a small issue I'd like resolved beforehand. Along one section of a sill plate (about 8 feet) I have a few areas that are constantly moist and I can't tell why, or how to fix it. It's just a few spots, and they are never sopping wet but always have a small bit of moisture that has been constant ever since we moved in (a little over a year). The 2x4 is pressure treated, however it is buried in the concrete about a 1/2 inch, where as my other sill plate rest directly on top of the concrete. Might this be a source of the problem? Is it possible there isn't proper vapor barrier beneath the sill plate? I should add, I pulled down all the insulation in the rest of the basement and there are no other areas of moisture anywhere along any walls or on the floor. I've added a few pics for clarity. There appears to be quite a bit of efflorescence.

[Bill Bumface]

Is it actually a 2x4? Or bigger? Are the studs also treated?

That almost sounds like how they build PWF reinforcements, where they dig out, pour a footing, and put the sill plate below the slap to resist kick. But I'm guessing you would have mentioned the plywood behind the studs if that was the case.

[Ozy_Flame]

You got wet downstairs, eh?

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Is it actually a 2x4? Or bigger? Are the studs also treated?

That almost sounds like how they build PWF reinforcements, where they dig out, pour a footing, and put the sill plate below the slap to resist kick. But I'm guessing you would have mentioned the plywood behind the studs if that was the case.

I think you're right, it might be a 2x6, but they are pressure treated I believe (has that proper green color PT has). So your saying it's not abnormal to have the sill plate imbedded into the cement a little? I just worry that having constant moisture on this sill plate will cause it to rot down the road. Not sure I understand about the plywood behind the studs you mention, maybe I should clarify (possibly I'm using improper terminology) but this a piece of wood on/in the basement floor and I'm worried there isn't a proper barrier between this piece of wood and the cement floor allowing water from underneath to wick up through the cement and come into contact with the wood. I'll try to get another picture, that is further back to better illustrate my issue. Thanks for you input nonetheless.

[Bill Bumface]

If it is what I'm talking about, it would look like this. I'm sort of guessing it's not, as you probably would have mentioned the other details.


The treated wood is supposed to be good for a long time in a wet environment, but I'd not like the idea of it, nor the possible moisture/mold in my living space either.

Usually this is best fixed from the outside. Digging down and putting in a French drain/weeping tile so that moisture drains away from the foundation.

Just don't call basement systems. They will quote you something insane and hope you don't shop around.

I got a $40,000 quote from them for a job I ended up paying about $5000 for....

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

If it is what I'm talking about, it would look like this. I'm sort of guessing it's not, as you probably would have mentioned the other details.


The treated wood is supposed to be good for a long time in a wet environment, but I'd not like the idea of it, nor the possible moisture/mold in my living space either.

Usually this is best fixed from the outside. Digging down and putting in a French drain/weeping tile so that moisture drains away from the foundation.

Just don't call basement systems. They will quote you something insane and hope you don't shop around.

I got a $40,000 quote from them for a job I ended up paying about $5000 for....

Good to know about Basement Systems, they were on my list of companies to call. I do have weeping tile and a sump pump and the weeping tile drained at a good pace during spring melt. Also the only moisture I have in my basement anywhere is along this sill plate, absolutely nowhere else, which is why I thought it might have something to do with that. But I am far from a handy guy and just trying to piece things together by google. It sounds like there's supposed to be some kind of barrier between the wood and cement and I'm worried either it's not there or faulty but I have no idea how to check this without jackhammering away at the concrete. Also, my other sill plates rest on top of the concrete and aren't imbedded like this one kind of is, so I worry that might be a source of the problem. I don't know though, grasping at straws. Thanks for your help though.

[puffnstuff]

There shouldnt be any kind of wood touching concrete, at all, ever. It will act like a wick and pull water from the cement. I dont think I have ever seen a sill plate embedded like that. Usually the basement floor is poured well after the foundation walls are. And then framing is done once the slab is dried.
If it was me, I would be pulling that sill plate up, not disturbing the concrete (if possible) and then filling that space in with concrete and then reframe the wall with a sill gasket.

[Fuzz]

Maybe the floor was poured, the wall put up then sometime afterwards self levelling concrete was used?

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

There shouldnt be any kind of wood touching concrete, at all, ever. It will act like a wick and pull water from the cement. I dont think I have ever seen a sill plate embedded like that. Usually the basement floor is poured well after the foundation walls are. And then framing is done once the slab is dried.
If it was me, I would be pulling that sill plate up, not disturbing the concrete (if possible) and then filling that space in with concrete and then reframe the wall with a sill gasket.

But how do I do that as it appears that framing is load bearing?

[To Be Quite Honest]

Tell Surferguy that you're inviting him and his wife over for dinner wine and or beers and then have him look at the basement with some advice.

Possible new buddy!

Great advice!

You're welcome.

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

But how do I do that as it appears that framing is load bearing?

Load bearing? Is it the outside wall, as in, against the foundation wall? The foundation wall is load bearing, the basement wall framing should not be. If it actually is bearing weight, you can build a temporary wall a couple feet away to carry the load while you fix it.

Is this by the stairs into the basement by chance? Which way do the joists run? parallel to the bad wall or at 90 to it?

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Load bearing? Is it the outside wall, as in, against the foundation wall? The foundation wall is load bearing, the basement wall framing should not be. If it actually is bearing weight, you can build a temporary wall a couple feet away to carry the load while you fix it.

Is this by the stairs into the basement by chance?

Sorry, I figured since it ran perpendicular to the floor joists it was load bearing (again I know very little about this kind of stuff ). You are exactly right, it is beside the stairs. Here is the bottom portion of that area (stairs are on the other side of that drywall):



And here's the upper portion:

[jeffh]

I had a similar issue with what appears the same location in my 2007 Calgary home. I believe the builder(Jayman) installed a section of stud wall exactly where the stairs go. They did this well before the concrete floor was poured. The purpose of this wall(I believe) was so they could assemble the stairs near the beginning stages of construction. I had a few other pieces of sill plate embedded in concrete, in the same area, as I had a stairs with a 90deg turn. I ended up ripping it all out, because it was misaligned with the rest of the wall. I also noticed a damp odour coming from the vicinity. After pulling the sill plate, I found mud and plenty of moisture in the crevice(Floor slab+footing+foundation wall) in an area that is below the peak of my exterior grade. I then cleaned up the crevice and placed wet concrete in the gap. Hasn't been an issue since. No moist smell either.

[puffnstuff]

I dont think its load bearing...unless the stair landing is connected to it somehow, but this is internet advice so...
What possibly happened is the stair guy showed up a couple days early and installed all the way down, before the slab was poured. And then the concrete guys showed up and 'forgot' to not cement that in.
However it happened, that wood needs to go. Is it a new build? Something the builder should repair if so...but uh...yeah good luck with that. Also its something a final build inspection should catch.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by jeffh

I had a similar issue with what appears the same location in my 2007 Calgary home. I believe the builder(Jayman) installed a section of stud wall exactly where the stairs go. They did this well before the concrete floor was poured. The purpose of this wall(I believe) was so they could assemble the stairs near the beginning stages of construction. I had a few other pieces of sill plate embedded in concrete, in the same area, as I had a stairs with a 90deg turn. I ended up ripping it all out, because it was misaligned with the rest of the wall. I also noticed a damp odour coming from the vicinity. After pulling the sill plate, I found mud and plenty of moisture in the crevice(Floor slab+footing+foundation wall) in an area that is below the peak of my exterior grade. I then cleaned up the crevice and placed wet concrete in the gap. Hasn't been an issue since. No moist smell either.

I also have 90 degree turn in my stairs. I'm hoping I can do exactly what you did. Thanks a lot for your input.

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

I dont think its load bearing...unless the stair landing is connected to it somehow, but this is internet advice so...
What possibly happened is the stair guy showed up a couple days early and installed all the way down, before the slab was poured. And then the concrete guys showed up and 'forgot' to not cement that in.
However it happened, that wood needs to go. Is it a new build? Something the builder should repair if so...but uh...yeah good luck with that. Also its something a final build inspection should catch.

Well that's a bit of a load off. Obviously I'm not going to make any final decisions until I get a pro to look at it, I just wanted some general background information. It is a newer build (2014) but the one year expired in Feb. One last question, are the load bearing portions of the basement all along the foundation walls and the beams that run under the steel support posts?

[Fuzz]

Yes, the external walls and the steel support posts are load bearing.

If your warranty just expired in February you may want to call the builder anyway and see what they say. It sure seams like shoddy work.

[Ryan Coke]

Might that be covered under alberta new home warranty?

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Yes, the external walls and the steel support posts are load bearing.

If your warranty just expired in February you may want to call the builder anyway and see what they say. It sure seams like shoddy work.

Yeah, if I can find out that this section is 100% non load bearing, I will give them a call and see what they say. Never hurts to ask. If not, I'll probably get the contractor who does the basement development to sort this situation out. To clarify, the basement walls and steel posts are the only load bearing parts of a basement, as far as you know?

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

Might that be covered under alberta new home warranty?

You'd think so, but ANHW is garbage and is mainly in place to protect builders. I do have a 5 year warranty with an actual warranty company, but after the first year, only structural stuff is covered, so if this area is non-structural, my claim will likely be denied.

[Stranger]

Its hard to say. It doesn't look to be a load bearing wall. Sometimes these walls are built to carry a load during the framing. They are usually 2x6 and should be PWF lumber. However we surround the base plate of the wall in treated 1x4 and then pour the slab around the wall later. This doesn't look like it had been done though. Can you find where the water is coming from and has it ever been enough to pool on the floor?

I was in a house last year with a similar problem in the basement. It ended up being that the roofers never properly flashed around a vent pipe and water gradually made its way under the flashing, through the walls and down to the basement floor.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Stranger

Its hard to say. It doesn't look to be a load bearing wall. Sometimes these walls are built to carry a load during the framing. They are usually 2x6 and should be PWF lumber. However we surround the base plate of the wall in treated 1x4 and then pour the slab around the wall later. This doesn't look like it had been done though. Can you find where the water is coming from and has it ever been enough to pool on the floor?

I was in a house last year with a similar problem in the basement. It ended up being that the roofers never properly flashed around a vent pipe and water gradually made its way under the flashing, through the walls and down to the basement floor.

It's never been enough to pool. The pictures are pretty much how it always is, no more, no less. I pulled back all the insulation and checked out all the walls for water, they all appear perfectly dry. I'm really hoping these walls are non-load bearing and I can take them down and get a good look at what's underneath.