ISIS militants attack and take over Iraqi northern city of Mosul

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by T@T

Obviously not enough, I have no religion but I watched the Pope on CNN plead for calm and peace after ISIS slaughtered a bunch of christian priests last year.

Islam has no true leader to speak for all...this is the problem, half of them hate each other so unity isn't happening any time soon.

So they need to create a unifying leader that speaks out against this stuff on TV to satisfy white people?

I have a bunch of Muslim friends, I'll let them know tomorrow that this is what needs to happen.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by flameswin

So they need to create a unifying leader that speaks out against this stuff on TV to satisfy white people?

I have a bunch of Muslim friends, I'll let them know tomorrow that this is what needs to happen.

What does white have to do with it? are you a racist?

And while your at it, tomorrow tell your "muslim friends" their spaghetti monster god is no better than anyone elses.

I still can't wrap my head around how many people die every day over over the big piles of called religion.

If Aliens are watching us they must be amazed that we humans can build flying machines,communicate around the planet in seconds and land discovery rovers on other worlds yet still kill each other over fairy tales.

Unreal!

[Vulcan]

ON CNN now
USA
1. Raid conducted deep in Syria overnight
2. Abu Sayyaf killed
3. Was in charge of oil, gas fields
4. His wife was captured in raid
5. All US troops returned safely

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by T@T

What does white have to do with it? are you a racist?

And while your at it, tomorrow tell your "muslim friends" their spaghetti monster god is no better than anyone elses.

I still can't wrap my head around how many people die every day over over the big piles of called religion.

If Aliens are watching us they must be amazed that we humans can build flying machines,communicate around the planet in seconds and land discovery rovers on other worlds yet still kill each other over fairy tales.

Unreal!

You're worried about what Aliens might think of us?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I don't really know if having a unifying leader who represents Islam is really a very good idea. I'm happy to be convinced
as to why it would be a positive thing, but I have my doubts. Did having a pope help significantly with respect to the abuses that took place in the Catholic church over the past few decades (or hell, since forever)?

Also, what would such a religious leader look like if he WAS chosen? I tend to doubt that he (it would obviously be a man) would resemble Reza Aslan or Maajid Nawaz. Likely he would be in favour of some sort of hegemonic Islamic state. I'm not sure we'd prefer his public statements to those traditionally made by Muslim leaders.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by T@T

Yes of course they do but they mostly do it within the mosques, If the so-called Islamophobia exists it's because the lack of public outcry from the muslim leadership. I'm talking TV, ralleys, parades etc.

Oh so you want some big parade for what exactly? To make you feel better?

In the mosques is exactly where it belongs. That's where the practicing Muslims are and being guided by there scholars. Just like it belongs in the church for Christians. Just because the Pope gets on tv all the time holding mass doesn't mean all religious leaders need to. And really the Pope is preaching typically in the confines of a mass but it just so happens there are TV cameras.

And of course numerous Muslims have been on TV anyways.....

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by T@T

Obviously not enough, I have no religion but I watched the Pope on CNN plead for calm and peace after ISIS slaughtered a bunch of christian priests last year.

Islam has no true leader to speak for all...this is the problem, half of them hate each other so unity isn't happening any time soon.

The Pope isn't the "true leader" of Christianity, and he doesn't "speak for all".

Some Christians think he's the devil. Hell, there are people who identify as Catholic who think he's the devil.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

The Pope isn't the "true leader" of Christianity, and he doesn't "speak for all".

Some Christians think he's the devil. Hell, there are people who identify as Catholic who think he's the devil.

i have never met a Catholic who speaks this way about the current Pope.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

i have never met a Catholic who speaks this way about the current Pope.

Me neither, far as I know, but I don't generally travel in circles where the Pope's devil-ness is brought up. Mel Gibson does though!

The point was that the Pope doesn't speak for Christianity as a whole.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I wonder if Muslims feel such a thing as "Muslim guilt" when stupid stuff like this happens, just like how white people feel "white guilt" every time a black person is unjustly killed by police.

lol you feel guilty when some hick cop in Florida kills a black guy? I get feeling angry and perhaps sad, but why on earth would you feel guilty? I would hope your average Muslim would feel nothing other than anger or perhaps sadness when something like this happens. They certainly shouldn't feel guilty considering they're in no way whatsoever responsible for it.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

You're worried about what Aliens might think of us?

Where did you get that idea?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Sliver

lol you feel guilty when some hick cop in Florida kills a black guy? I get feeling angry and perhaps sad, but why on earth would you feel guilty? I would hope your average Muslim would feel nothing other than anger or perhaps sadness when something like this happens. They certainly shouldn't feel guilty considering they're in no way whatsoever responsible for it.

Maybe shame or embarrassment would be a better word than guilt, but yeah as a white person, when a black person is unjustly harmed by a white person, I do feel disproportionately disappointed (shamed or whatever you want to call it) given the history between black and white people in North America than I would be if a white person wasn't the perpetrator.

When a terrorist attack occurs on Westerners, I would not be surprised if most Muslims in the West are hoping above all that it wasn't one of their own involved even if they personally (and obviously) had nothing to do with it.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Muslims in general should feel bad or guilty when some Muslims carry out hate attacks. I don't think the notion of collect shame or guilt is really that bizarre of a concept though. People often feel bad about things beyond their control if they are somehow ethically or religiously associated.

The notion of collective shame and guilt is not really that unusual. Here is an interesting paper on it: http://www.uv.es/garzon/psicologia%20politica/N32-4.pdf

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by _Q_

As a moderate Muslim who has lived in Canada for over 25 years, sometimes I get the urge to lob off a few infidels' heads. If it wasn't for the tireless work of the moderate imams, telling me that my ideas are bad, I would be putting on a suicide vest as we speak.

The struggle is real guys.

Seriously?

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by _Q_

As a moderate Muslim who has lived in Canada for over 25 years, sometimes I get the urge to lob off a few infidels' heads. If it wasn't for the tireless work of the moderate imams, telling me that my ideas are bad, I would be putting on a suicide vest as we speak.

The struggle is real guys.

Who qualifies as an infidel?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

ON CNN now
USA
1. Raid conducted deep in Syria overnight
2. Abu Sayyaf killed
3. Was in charge of oil, gas fields
4. His wife was captured in raid
5. All US troops returned safely

With ISIS the singling out of and targeting of their key leaders is the best possible strategy as long as they keep doing it.

Not only will ISIS continue to have to rely on more and more inexperienced leaders, but the selection of the leaders will become more and more contested and ISIS will break into factions.

As well with the incapacitation of their leader, the only guy that can legitimately trace his ancestry back to a direct interaction with profit, it challenges the legitimacy of the right to a caliphate.

It was tougher to do this with Al Qaeda because Al Qaeda was a traditional terrorist organization that was loosely organized around cells and individual cell leaders.

Realistically the airstrikes have to continue to target leadership over infrastructure since the coalition is never going to fight a conventional war against ISIS.

We've seen another dramatic shift in the future of warfare here, as leadership becomes the key and only target.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Seriously?

Yes seriously.

Dude, don't turn this thread into another pissing match.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Yes seriously.

Dude, don't turn this thread into another pissing match.

Serious question?

What exactly is a moderate Muslim?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by T@T

Serious question?

What exactly is a moderate Muslim?

Someone who uses their brain and doesn't think that every part of the Qur’an or Hadith is the literal word of God.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Someone who uses their brain and doesn't think that every part of the Qur’an or Hadith is the literal word of God.

Oh OK then, merriam-webster among other things defines it as "limited in scope or effect" which some people might say that it means "don't use their brain properly"

I guess now I need to ask what "words of God" do you believe in?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by T@T

Oh OK then, merriam-webster among other things defines it as "limited in scope or effect" which some people might say that it means "don't use their brain properly"

I guess now I need to ask what "words of God" do you believe in?

Honestly, I barely believe in any of it. I'm barely even a Muslim these days. I do, however, like the giving to charity, conducting your life in service to others, not talking about people behind their back, not judging others and honesty at all costs portions of it. That's what I chose to take out of it.

I have friends and family that are varying degrees of moderation and devoutness. They all take what they chose to take out of the religion. Even the most extremist folks (like the isis people) chose to take the most violent portions of the religion and ignore most of the rest.

At the end of the day, religion is whatever you chose to make out of it.