Why size is no longer a telling factor in the NHL

[Psytic]

At 5’ 11”, 177 lbs. the Blackhawks’ superstar likely would have been deemed too small to compete in the rough and tough National Hockey League, but that was then!

You never shy away from talent” Bowman told Lazerus, “It’s never been more friendly for a smaller player to play because it’s really a skill game now. If you have size in addition to that, that’s great…but size alone is not the answer.”

This is why the Blackhawks maintain a great opportunity to win this Western Conference Finals series against the Ducks, despite the fact that Anaheim boasts one of the largest and most physically dominant rosters in the league with guys like Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry.

I am always curious to hear peoples thoughts on this. I prefer emulating the Hawks with a lot of speed and an offensve blue line. Others claim we need to get bigger and cycle teams to death like the Kings and Ducks. who is right? Whats best for the Flames?

[Zevo]

How about big AND fast with skill and a mobile defence. I don't know why people think it has to be one or the other.

The ducks are both big AND fast and can beat you either way.

[jessnuts]

Why?

Spoiler!

Because the Calgary Flames said so.

[chubeyr1]

Did you watch the Anaheim series?

Size will always be a factor! I love Gaudreau, but he needs protection on the ice. He wont go to the tough areas cause he knows how that will end.

Its like Kris Russell trying to clear the front of the net as a big power forward stands there. I love Russell, he cant do it though.

Size is important! Skating though is too. Big guy who can skate is the player you want! Big guy who cant skate is a pilon on the ice.

Watch Colborne play in the playoffs. Imagine if that is Gaudreau. He used his size to protect the puck, Johnny cant do that. Johnny is amazing, at 6 foot 5" tall Gaudreau would be a hof player. Might be regardless. Yet if he was that big we might be talking about the best hockey player ever.

Size matters! Matters a lot. When it is matched with skill.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

I love Johnny...but if he was 6'5 he might be the best player ever?

In my view if Johnny was 6'5 he would lose everything that makes him Johnny, meaning his quick 180 turns, his acceleration and mouse-like change of pace etc. He would be a very skilled 6'5 player. Maybe like an inch taller Getzlaf but a winger.

Johnny is like a matador he wouldnt be the same if he was the bull. I dont think Johnny needs to be big just like Kane doesnt need to be big.

Now Kris Russell...if he was 6'5, I think he would be a lot more effective but he is a bit different from the matador that Johnny is he is a bull-fighter who refuses to give an inch on the ice, even when he gives up a half a foot and over 30 pounds to his opponent in size. Got to love his attitude.

[Geeoff]

I'm glad Johnny isn't 6'5". If he was, he'd have been a top 10 pick and we wouldn't have been able to draft him.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

The problem you're having is your focus on tools... they're only useful to the extent you can translate them. Lots of guys have speed; only some of them can use it effectively to influence the game. Lots of guys have size; same difference. How you get there isn't as important.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Zevo

How about big AND fast with skill and a mobile defence. I don't know why people think it has to be one or the other.

The ducks are both big AND fast and can beat you either way.

that's not easy to build for since every one wants both / draft position etc. usually you have to make a compromise some where

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

The problem you're having is your focus on tools... they're only useful to the extent you can translate them. Lots of guys have speed; only some of them can use it effectively to influence the game. Lots of guys have size; same difference. How you get there isn't as important.

I think in the perfect world we get a guy who's is big fast and has high hockey iq but realistically we won't get the luxury of picking perfect hockey players most years. So which skill set do you prioritize and in what order. These two teams are quite a bit different in that regard. They are both successful but which style of build and which skills and physical qualities do you prioritize when building.

[Poe969]

IMO size is still the most important factor. You need to have skill and speed but if 2 small skilled teams play, my money is on the bigger skilled team of the 2. Point being that you need both. The Flames are a small team and so are the Canadians. They both play a fast, skilled game but the Flames are bigger or at least play bigger. You do need both but size still matters. Players like Kane and Johnny are diamonds in the ruff, they're the exception to the rule because not every small player is close to their skill level. There are going to be more and more but bigger players with skill still have the edge IMO.

[Huntingwhale]

The Hawks have an abundance of skill and talent to balance out their lack of physical play. Something we don't have yet. That's why they can roll with any team in the league and will put up a much bigger challenge vs the Ducks then we ever did.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

All else being equal, bigger is always better. Now, if the point is that all else is never equal, then fair point.

But to suggest size is no longer a key advantage in the NHL is silly. All that is being pointed out, is that speed and skill are also very key factors. The Flames goal should be to get as fast, skilled and BIG as possible to create the best team they can.

The Flames, if nothing else, have the speed thing down. This year they showed us they are also much more skilled than we would have predicted, but still room to grow there I think. Where they are hugely in deficite is size. They need to get bigger, but as our GM said post season, not bigger for bigger's sake. You can't completely sacrifice the other two simply for size, that won't work, just like be only skilled, or only fast won't work. Here's hoping the Flames find a way to add some size while largely maintaining their speed and continuing to grow skill wise.

[Erick Estrada]

Ducks kind of got lucky with the 2003 draft getting a couple of generational players in Getzlaf and Perry in that they possessed high end skill and size. Trying to emulated the Ducks is pretty foolish because there's maybe one player every draft that has the high end skill and size they possess. It seems you have better odds of finding elite skill in players below 6 feet tall such as Kane, Gadreau, Tyler Johnson, etc and eventually guys like Druin and Petan will get their shot. Balance is always key but I don't believe for a second that the Ducks beat the Flames because they were the bigger team. They simply beat the Flames because they were the better team. Lets not forget that the Flames misery in the Honda center started in the Sutter days when the Flames were not exactly a small team.

[Buff]

Size helps, but a guy with a smaller body can be stronger than a guy with a big body. Size isn't what makes a player better. Strength and heart make a player better. If Johnny was stronger he could fair better going into the corners, but that isn't his game. So why try to change it to make him a stronger and more effective player when he was played a different style to suit his body? He's done a good job of it too.

[edslunch]

Best bet for the Flames is to mix size and skill players - Ferland, Bouma, Bollig, even Colborne are a good physical presence. Poirier and Bennett add edge, not so much sheer size. Replace a smaller not skilled enough player like Raymond with someone more physical, find a more physical Jones and you've got a pretty good forward balance.

The Mobile, offensive D are a huge strength for the team, but need to inject more physicality. I like Schlemko and Diaz but they are more of the same as the top 4. Use the 5-7 slots on more physical D

The ideal is a blend of Hawks and Ducks, not one or other

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Psytic

So which skill set do you prioritize and in what order.

None of them. You take the guy who has a better track record (and, in your scouting department's expertise, a better likelihood) of implementing whatever skill set he has in a manner that will lead to outscoring the other guys.

Prioritizing a skill set, looking for "the next Lucic" or whatever has caused some of the more boneheaded managerial moves in the course of this league's history. If you get focused on tools you're missing the forest for the trees.

[polak]

It's not the size, it's the skill set.

Some skill sets work better with size, some work better without it. Size is usually a plus but some player relish being small (Like Gaudreau, Kane) because it lets them do things that 6'5 players couldn't dream of.

You know why Johhny is able to skate in on 4 players and dance around them without being absolutely crushed? Because the book on Johnny says if you give him an opening he will make you look like a fool. His size is a big part of that cause it makes him harder to hit and gives him a lower center of gravity meaning you'd have to bend down quite a bit to topple him, thus exposing yourself to wizardry.

Now the thing is, Johnny and Kane are probably two of some of the most purely skilled players to probably ever play the game (just skills and awareness wise). It's rare that someone has a skill set so tailored being small.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I am always curious to hear peoples thoughts on this. I prefer emulating the Hawks with a lot of speed and an offensve blue line. Others claim we need to get bigger and cycle teams to death like the Kings and Ducks. who is right? Whats best for the Flames?

The Hawks had enough size and grit to stand up to the Blues last year and win 4 straight games from them playing a heavy game.

Seabrook is bigger and plays harder than any D-man that the Flames have.

Brodie was able to play extremely with Engelland as his partner. Duncan Keith has Seabrook Bigger , Meaner and far more skilled.... that simply make the hawks a better team than the Flames.

Toews is bigger and plays harder than any forward the Flames have and that includes Ferland against Vancouver. He plays with an edge that Monahan will never have. Will Bennett be able to get big enough to be Toews-like?

The Hawks make be considered a speed team but that is a function of their most skilled guys Kane and Keith. Kane and Keith would be the same players as they are but not be as successful or be as speedy as they are now without Seabrook and Toews.

[thefoss1957]

The 'Hawks have 2 Cups in the trophy case recently, using the speed/skill over size/physicality formula. Also, there is the shot lane clogging defensive framework...

Without going out of their way to hit, the 'Hawks are relentless on the backcheck, and creative on offense...they dominate possession at times, and force penalties, while minimizing taking them. The mobility plan has helped the quick breakout, and the stretch pass takes advantage of carelessness or inattentiveness and hyper aggression.

I also laugh, a little, at the "experts" that have chosen the Duck Defense, over the 'Hawks...not that "expert" opinion matters, but there is only ONE NHL team that has a perfect record, this season and post-season, when leading after 2 periods. And the 'Hawks have managed that, so far, without overwhelming size.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by thefoss1957

The 'Hawks have 2 Cups in the trophy case recently, using the speed/skill over size/physicality formula. Also, there is the shot lane clogging defensive framework...

Without going out of their way to hit, the 'Hawks are relentless on the backcheck, and creative on offense...they dominate possession at times, and force penalties, while minimizing taking them. The mobility plan has helped the quick breakout, and the stretch pass takes advantage of carelessness or inattentiveness and hyper aggression.

I also laugh, a little, at the "experts" that have chosen the Duck Defense, over the 'Hawks...not that "expert" opinion matters, but there is only ONE NHL team that has a perfect record, this season and post-season, when leading after 2 periods. And the 'Hawks have managed that, so far, without overwhelming size.

The Hawks are the team I envy, and hope the Flames follow the same path as them. It looks like we seem to be trending in the right direction imo.