Flames RFA's - Who should be qualified/signed?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

....Alex Killorn put up 17 goals and 24 assists in 82 GP
....Mikael Backlund put up 18 goals and 21 assists in 76 GP

So you're saying Killorn is a better point producer than Backlund and makes 2.5 million. Ok, so there's a notch in the column towards Backlund making less than 3 million.

And Killorn also had I think two more years worth of RFA in that deal which brings the AAV down....and Killorn just happened to be a nice Top 6 piece on one of the best teams in the NHL this year, and unlike Backlund, he was playing alongside a 40 goal scoring legend, not Lance Bouma and David Jones.

The only thing stopping Backlund from putting up points is Backlund. He's been given ample opportunity with all sorts of top 6 forwards and couldn't produce. Killorn gets an opportunity and does, it's as simple as that.

Another check mark in the column for making less than 3 million.

He was on pace for 42+ points this year, and put up 39 last year. Injuries might be a bit of a negotiating point, you don't sum aggregate points without factoring in the games played that season. He's a 40 point centreman in terms of his average production. If we don't pay him and buy UFA years, he will get paid appropriately somewhere else as a UFA.

Great, so, he can't play a full season and he's only broken 30 points 1 time. Only broken 10 goals 1 time. He has never scored 40 points, so it's pretty tough to average him out to that mark when he only has 1 season eclipsing 30. At this point, it is a stretch to call him a 30 point player because he can't stay healthy enough to play enough games, and isn't an offense threat in the games he does get into.

How about Jarett Stoll? yeah, 2014-15 was a terrible year for him, but prior to that the he was a notable part of two cup winning teams as a guy making a Stajan contract as a 3rd line center. In those cup years he had 21 and 27 points respectively.

In Stoll's entire career he's played less than 70 games twice. That goes back to 2004.

In Backlund's entire career, he's played more than 70 games twice.

In fact, Stoll has played more games than Backlund in every single season the two players have been in the league together, and Stoll has 5 seasons that meet or surpass Backlund's BEST point production seasons.

Stoll is/was one of the best faceoff men in the league; Backlund sucks in the faceoff circle.

Stoll is a physical threat, Backlund is soft.

[Imported_Aussie]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

It really surprises me that people are attaching the word immovable to Bouma and Ferland (though players I really like), but not Backlund.

What I think people are getting at is that Ferland and Bouma fill a need where the team lacks depth, but with the Centres coming through, Backlund is in a position of organizational depth.
Sure, we also have depth at LW, but not with physical players like Bouma and Ferland, which will help balance out line combinations.
I personally like Backlund and feel he has a role on this team going forward, especially next year as Bennett will need to be eased into the centre position. But he has value, and as such, could bring value back in a trade

[lostintokyo]

I don't understand the love for Backlund. He is an average player to me and a weak 2nd line center on a good team.

Average speed, average shot and extremely weak on faceoff's. I do think he is a smart player and defensively responsible though. To me this describes a solid 3rd or 4th line center.

[Funkhouser]

Forwards (13)

(26) C - Mikael Backlund- 4 years $14m
(25) LW - Lance Bouma- 3 years $7m
(23) LW - Micheal Ferland- 2 years $1.8m
(25) C - Josh Jooris- 2 years $1.8m
(26) F - Paul Byron- 2 years $1.8m
(24) C - Drew Shore- QO
(23) C - Bill Arnold- QO
(26) LW - David Wolf- QO (last chance)
(23) C - Max Reinhart- QO (last chance)
(23) LW - Kenny Agostino- QO
(23) F - Turner Elson- QO
(25) RW - Ben Hanowski- QO (last chance)
(23) LW - Bryce Van Brabant- AHL deal

Defense (3)

(24) RD - Sena Acolatse- AHL deal
(24) RD - John Ramage- QO (last chance)
(26) LD - Chad Billins Walk

Assuming we don't move one of our top 9 (Backlund, Colborne??)...Move Raymond before the season starts and see in training camp if one of the youngsters can push Byron, Bollig, Jooris or Shore off the team. Byron and Bollig are perfect 13th forwards.

[BigRed]

I'd keep Colborne. In the playoffs, he showed glimpses of what he could be, with bursts of physicality and, IMHO, quite incredible agility for a big guy. 6'5" players who can skate like him don't grow on trees, and his hands are pretty good too.

As far as Byron goes: Love the guy, but hasn't he already been replaced by Ferland, who does the same job, skates just as well, has better hands and is 40 pounds heavier? With Ferland emerging, hard to see where Byron fits.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

It really surprises me that people are attaching the word immovable to Bouma and Ferland (though players I really like), but not Backlund.

It's because we're a small team that has loads of depth down the middle, it's nothing against Backlund as a player. Bouma and Ferland are unique players for this team in that they are big, can hit and add some scoring. No other player offers this on the current roster besides Colborne and Jones (and they are much less physical).

Personally I think Backlund OR Stajan should go as soon as Bennett is ready to take over the 2nd line center spot. Can't have both Backlund and Stajan on the team long term, especially if Shore, Arnold or Jankowski make the team by 16/17 or sooner in Shore's case. It will probably come down to which player management prefers as a 3rd/4th line center, or maybe they keep Backlund as move him to the wing in a depth role.

Backlund is very good defensively, but I'm not sure that's going to be enough to keep him here long term, given his very pedestrian offensive abilities. It's a classic numbers game scenario, and it's a good problem to have. We are just not used to this as Flames fans, but it's basically business as usual for any successful team. Good players have to be moved to make room for other good players that fit the team better.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I don't understand why Backlund is getting paid over 3m. I'd only offer him a 3 x 3 or a 2.5 x 4.

[Itse]

Backlund is coming from a 27 point regular season and 2 points in the playoffs. He's 26 and this was his sixth season, so we've probably pretty much seen his prime. Next season his points per game will probably go down as Bennett takes on some of his icetime on offense.

He's not a solid player and fits the teams needs well, as Bennett is going to need some sheltering, but I don't see a huge payday going his way.

One upside to Backlunds situation is Stajan being around as the most direct comparable though.

[Dan403]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Treliving sure sounded high on Backlund at the year end presser. For whatever that's worth.

Hockey people see value that fanboys often miss.

Keep Backlund.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Dan403

Hockey people see value that fanboys often miss.

Keep Backlund.

So everyone who sees Backlund as expendable is a fanboy? Good to know. I guess 'the hockey people' have spoken: Backlund is a core piece, case closed. Thank goodness we have you around to educate us on the amazing and irreplaceable Mikael Backlund.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Count me down as confused why people are wanting to ship out one of, if not our best defensive forward. Hovering around 30 points, that's 3rd line numbers. He's softer then you'd like but that's not different then Cogliano of the Ducks. Good two-way, on the soft side, but smart players with excellent positioning and stick work. Cogliano makes 3 million even. That'd be the end line of Backlund for me, 3 year deal?

We're not in a cap crunch, our depth isn't all that great yet. Colborne is finding his game as a winger, great along the boards, don't like his two-way game enough.

[Badgers Nose]

Sign:
(26) C - Mikael Backlund - good season
(25) LW - Lance Bouma - great season
(23) LW - Micheal Ferland - looks legit, need more data
(25) C - Josh Jooris - good season
(26) F - Paul Byron - not sure any of the kids have out played him yet.
(24) C - Drew Shore - not sure, could go but I would like more info
(23) C - Bill Arnold - not sure
(23) C - Max Reinhart - probably a career AHL player ermgency call up
(23) LW - Kenny Agostino - good AHL season
(23) F - Turner Elson - need more data

(24) RD - John Ramage - probably a career AHL player ermgency call up

[hummdeedoo]

Originally Posted by BigRed

I'd keep Colborne. In the playoffs, he showed glimpses of what he could be, with bursts of physicality and, IMHO, quite incredible agility for a big guy. 6'5" players who can skate like him don't grow on trees, and his hands are pretty good too.

As far as Byron goes: Love the guy, but hasn't he already been replaced by Ferland, who does the same job, skates just as well, has better hands and is 40 pounds heavier? With Ferland emerging, hard to see where Byron fits.

Ferland looks real good but I have to disagree with "Skates just as well" comment. Byron's quickness and speed better than Ferland.

Ferland was a beast against Vancouver and played at a level that's not sustainable over a longer time frame. Want to see him over a 20 game regular season stretch to see how consistent he is.

Consistency is important one the things Hartley stresses. Something that is also stressed is how the game is getting faster and faster - that's were Byron fits in.

Also agree with Cali Flames in that Byron could be great utility forward.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Stoll is/was one of the best faceoff men in the league; Backlund sucks in the faceoff circle.

Stoll is a physical threat, Backlund is soft.

Backlund was 48% in the faceoof dot last season, Stoll was 51%.
Backlund had 41 hits last year, Stoll had 58

Jarrett Stoll is slightly better in both categories.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Backlund was 48% in the faceoof dot last season, Stoll was 51%.
Backlund had 41 hits last year, Stoll had 58

Jarrett Stoll is slightly better in both categories.

Now that Stoll is a shadow of his former self, it's not really a great comparison.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Backlund was 48% in the faceoof dot last season, Stoll was 51%.
Backlund had 41 hits last year, Stoll had 58

Jarrett Stoll is slightly better in both categories.

I would probably take Backlund now over Stoll, but I wouldn't give either guy more than 3 million, and I definitely wouldn't give either guy term longer than a year or two.

I'm struggling with that 3 million figure for Backlund unless it is a short term deal.

Faceoff percentages equates to roughly 170 more faceoff wins for Stoll than Backlund, with stoll taking about 300 more draws than Backlund last year.

Monahan by comparison won more than 900 draws last year at 49.3%

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Backlund was 48% in the faceoof dot last season, Stoll was 51%.
Backlund had 41 hits last year, Stoll had 58

Jarrett Stoll is slightly better in both categories.

I don't think you can compare either Stoll's pay in a UFA contract with Backlund's next RFA contract or his play (Stoll's trending downward - what were his stats befoer he signed?).

Treliving noted the obvious the other day - you use comparables. Stoll isn't a comparable of Backlund simply due to his UFA status.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

It's because we're a small team that has loads of depth down the middle, it's nothing against Backlund as a player. Bouma and Ferland are unique players for this team in that they are big, can hit and add some scoring. No other player offers this on the current roster besides Colborne and Jones (and they are much less physical).

Personally I think Backlund OR Stajan should go as soon as Bennett is ready to take over the 2nd line center spot. Can't have both Backlund and Stajan on the team long term, especially if Shore, Arnold or Jankowski make the team by 16/17 or sooner in Shore's case. It will probably come down to which player management prefers as a 3rd/4th line center, or maybe they keep Backlund as move him to the wing in a depth role.

Backlund is very good defensively, but I'm not sure that's going to be enough to keep him here long term, given his very pedestrian offensive abilities. It's a classic numbers game scenario, and it's a good problem to have. We are just not used to this as Flames fans, but it's basically business as usual for any successful team. Good players have to be moved to make room for other good players that fit the team better.

My surprise comes from the fact that Backlund has received a lot of praise from both his coach and general manager. All signs point towards an extension - and I wouldn't be surprised if he'll be the first we'll hear about.

Backlund is an imperfect player, but to criticize him for not shutting down Ryan Getzlaf, arguably a top 3 centre in the league, is not fair. There are four other players on a line. People seem to be upset that he's not putting up 50+ points, and while I think he's capable of that one day, that's not really his game. Vermette isn't much bigger, if at all, and he's made an effective career out of his game.

Backlund's game makes life easier for a lot of players. I don't know if Bennett is ready to step into a top 6 role next season, and even if he is, Backlund would look really good getting minutes on the 3rd line and on the PK.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

My surprise comes from the fact that Backlund has received a lot of praise from both his coach and general manager. All signs point towards an extension - and I wouldn't be surprised if he'll be the first we'll hear about.

Backlund is an imperfect player, but to criticize him for not shutting down Ryan Getzlaf, arguably a top 3 centre in the league, is not fair. There are four other players on a line. People seem to be upset that he's not putting up 50+ points, and while I think he's capable of that one day, that's not really his game. Vermette isn't much bigger, if at all, and he's made an effective career out of his game.

Backlund's game makes life easier for a lot of players. I don't know if Bennett is ready to step into a top 6 role next season, and even if he is, Backlund would look really good getting minutes on the 3rd line and on the PK.

Haven't seen a single post doing this. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The arguments have been that we are very deep at C and weak at D...and Backlund is a pretty decent player that would fetch a nice return in a package.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I have to agree that if Backlund is best suited to be a great 3rd line checking center, he's missing 2 (really one if you boil it down) components. Physical play and face-off prowess. Really, it's not his stick holding him back on the dot, it's his ability to outmuscle the other guy now and then. If he were ever able to up his physical play he'd likely be over 50% on the dot, which is an absolute must if you're a checking center going up against the opposition's top lines. Unfortunately, he's a little bit too fragile to be using his body regularly.

Backlund's line did pretty well against the Getzlaf line. That line's best games were against Stajan's line early on. Backlund is one of the better centers at defensive awareness and an active stick. He has a LOT of takeaways. He had 58 takeaways this year, just 1 behind the perennial Selke candidate Pavel Datsyuk. He reminds me of Datsyuk on the defensive side of the game, and if you compare their real-time stats they are shockingly similar. Pavel never outmuscles anyone, but he is always in the right spot and is incredibly difficult to get a puck past. Here's the big difference. Backlund's face-off percentage is 48.3%, Datsyuk is up around 53.6%.

Honestly, if Backlund could be near 51%, he'd be one of the great checking centers in the game.