Lauren Wiggins, Moncton teen, takes stand against 'unjust' school dress code

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Does every discussion about a woman have to be about a man too nowadays?

Christ almighty.

I personally don't care about the male/female aspect. I'm more looking at why there would be any outrage. They have a clear code. I'm not going to argue the merit of their code but I'm assuming if she doesn't like it she can go to a school that has a more lenient dress code that suits her preferences.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Would anyone care or be outraged if this story was about a guy getting punished for wearing a muscle shirt to this school?

If there were instances of other people doing the same (or other dress code violations) and not being singled out... then ya probably. If he made enough of a stink about it.

If he was suspended because the muscle shirt was a sexual distraction, absolutely there would be. It's just as dumb either way.

Outrage is probably a little overboard (at least in the context of this thread). Most people seem to agree that what she's wearing is technically against their rules, the problems are: The dress is totally appropriate by pretty much any standard of dress; the code is apparently not enforced for other violations; and the reasoning for singling her out (too good looking for the boys).

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MattyC

If there were instances of other people doing the same (or other dress code violations) and not being singled out... then ya probably. If he made enough of a stink about it.

If he was suspended because the muscle shirt was a sexual distraction, absolutely there would be. It's just as dumb either way.

Outrage is probably a little overboard (at least in the context of this thread). Most people seem to agree that what she's wearing is technically against their rules, the problems are: The dress is totally appropriate by pretty much any standard of dress; the code is apparently not enforced for other violations; and the reasoning for singling her out (too good looking for the boys).

If the principal actually said in those words that her outfit was a "sexual distraction" then I would say he/she made a mistake as all they had to do was bring out the dress conduct rules and show where they feel she was in violation and that would be that. Bringing up "sexual distraction" probably opened up a can of worms but it's hard to say given we have only heard one side of the story. I don't know how much things have changed but if I wore a muscle shirt to high school I would have been sent home to change.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If the principal actually said in those words that her outfit was a "sexual distraction" then I would say he/she made a mistake as all they had to do was bring out the dress conduct rules and show where they feel she was in violation and that would be that. Bringing up "sexual distraction" probably opened up a can of worms but it's hard to say given we have only heard one side of the story. I don't know how much things have changed but if I wore a muscle shirt to high school I would have been sent home to change.

You would still have the issue of (allegedly) certain parts of the code not being adhered to and not being similarly punished. If so, it leads into the only conclusion being that the dress made her too sexy.

And, as she alluded to, having a male authority be the person who passes judgement on whether or not her attire is too sexy, is pretty creepy and discomforting on it's own.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by MattyC

And, as she alluded to, having a male authority be the person who passes judgement on whether or not her attire is too sexy, is pretty creepy and discomforting on it's own.

Too sexy for the teachers, or for the students? If the former, then definitely creepy, if the latter, then maybe valid. I don't think the discussion of sexual attraction from a purely biological sense should be taboo.

Adolescent boys can be easily distracted. Not saying that it's her fault, but regardless, I think it is a fair assessment that the learning environment can be affected by sexual tension when it comes to young people.

It's probably not realistic to expect the teachers to change the way every teenage male thinks or reacts to these situations. In a perfect world, it would be preferable, but in the real world, probably not possible.

In the real world, rules and laws are made because there is a minority that cannot control or moderate itself and it's not fair, but life isn't fair.

Just playing devil's advocate. I can see both sides to this issue.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Adolescent boys can be easily distracted. Not saying that it's her fault, but regardless, I think it is a fair assessment that the learning environment can be affected by sexual tension when it comes to young people.

I think you have understimated adolescent boys and their ability to learn things as well as the importance of teaching them these things.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Too sexy for the teachers, or for the students? If the former, then definitely creepy, if the latter, then maybe valid. I don't think the discussion of sexual attraction from a purely biological sense should be taboo.

Yeah agreed, I doubt the admin is comfortable making that assertion either. But I can see why it would seem creepy.

Adolescent boys can be easily distracted. Not saying that it's her fault, but regardless, I think it is a fair assessment that the learning environment can be affected by sexual tension when it comes to young people.

This is kind of the main point. The boys are distracted regardless, we've been able to get through high school regardless somehow. Girls in my HS definitely were wearing more revealing clothes than that dress.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I think you have understimated adolescent boys and their ability to learn things as well as the importance of teaching them these things.

I wish I could believe that, but the FHRITP trend doesn't have me inspired.

I think most boys are fine and have no issues, but there are enough that do and aren't going to change no matter how much you try to teach them.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think most boys are fine and have no issues, but there are enough that do and aren't going to change no matter how much you try to teach them.

Well if we're not willing separate based on gender, there's always chemical castration.

[OMG!WTF!]

I wish I could believe that, but the FHRITP trend doesn't have me inspired.

I think that is even more reason to start young and take every possible opportunity to teach. Ignoring the problem makes it worse. -- Check out this engineer in Toronto who got canned for being an idiot...

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015...to-police.html

If he had learned this lesson earlier, he'd still have a life.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by woob

Did I just walk into an old folks home?

No. You just learned that not everyone likes what you like.

[polak]

The best part is if they go on a field trip to a pool for gym class she'll be able to walk around in a bikini without issue.

The problem is simply a stupid code that is unevenly enforced.

[Minnie]

Viewing a woman's shoulders as sexual makes about as much sense as viewing a man's weenus as sexual.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Would anyone care or be outraged if this story was about a guy getting punished for wearing a muscle shirt to this school?

Probably. In particular if it was thought of as a sexual distraction. Stupid rules are stupid.

[CroFlames]

I think schools try to refrain from imposing uniforms because of cost implications. Plus I assume they want some semblance of freedom of dress.

However, I agree that schools should have dress codes, and specific ones at that. I think highschools try to foster an environment of professionalism to try and get young people ready for a real life career. There is a time and place for everything. Yes I had a problem with Johnny wearing a ball cap to a formal ceremony. Do I have a problem with ball caps? No. This girls dress doesn't exactly exude professionalism. Do I have a problem with the dress itself? Not at all. I strongly believe that this dress issue is not a patriarchal, rape culture, or sexist problem. Strict dress codes should be applied to both genders.

I just think schools try to create environments firstly of safety, and then of professionalism and learning and in my mind there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, it is a good thing. I'm not sure that the shoulders thing is a 'sexual distraction', more of a professional vs unprofessional work environment thing. Young boys are sexually distracted by anything. I'm sure a girl showing extra skin doesn't help, but it doesn't make them any more distracted than they already were.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Minnie

Viewing a woman's shoulders as sexual makes about as much sense as viewing a man's weenus as sexual.

While there is some vague reason for high school students to follow a stricter dress code, presumably in preparation for entering the work force, here's where it dawns on me that it's not about "professionalism" or "appropriateness."

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/5-ye...190932572.html

“It’s a very pretty dress, she’s worn it to school before,” Rouner tells Yahoo Parenting. “When she came out [of school covered up], I thought she had just been cold, but she said ‘no, spaghetti straps aren’t allowed.’ I thought, that’s shaming, and that’s wrong. It’s saying, ‘how you look is not appropriate,’ and she’s worn that dress to church.”

So you're telling me a 5 year old girl's shoulders are sexually stimulating?
If anyone is getting turned on by that--it isn't solved by making the 5 year old girl put on sleeves. That person has major, major issues far beyond anything that a more "modest" dress could fix.

And then not only did they make her put on a sweater--then they also made her cover up her legs--which were already covered by the dress itself.

“It’s a full-length dress that she has to hold up to keep from getting wet in uncut grass,” he writes. “She even had a small set of shorts underneath because it was gym day. But because the top part of her dress apparently exposed the immoral sinfulness of her bare shoulders she also had to pull on jeans even though her legs remained completely covered as part of her punishment.”

This girl isn't being prepped for adulthood, she isn't about to enter college or the professional environment. She's a five year old who probably spends most of her time scribbling with crayons.


Again, if the young woman from the original article is correct, that wallet chains and things of that nature (which are all predominantly things worn by guys) are regularly ignored despite being against the rules, yet she was singled out for her dress--she has reason to speak up, because it's not about "safety" or "following the rules."

[Minnie]

That whole "prepping them for the work force/professionalism" thing is bunk too. Casual Friday, anyone? Holy hell. I used to work in the towers in TD Square. Friday was a weird weird ride up the elevator with people who should have been sent home to change. It was bad. We weren't allowed to do casual Friday in our office, and after seeing the outfits that showed up on Fridays, I was really kind of glad about that, LOL.

IF the school administration referred to this as a sexual distraction, I'd be asking for a big stinking hairy eyeball to be focused on the staff that even mentioned it because that's a little weird to me.

[Johnny199r]

I was in court with another lawyer whose boob popped out while she was addressing the court.

Some of the female lawyers dress like they're going to the bar. Right up there with the older lady who wears lulu leamon pants and a golden retriever sweater to court.

No need to prepare young women for any dress code standards in the workplace, because from what I can tell, they don't exist.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

I was in court with another lawyer whose boob popped out while she was addressing the court.

Some of the female lawyers dress like they're going to the bar. Right up there with the older lady who wears lulu leamon pants and a golden retriever sweater to court.

No need to prepare young women for any dress code standards in the workplace, because from what I can tell, they don't exist.

Do they have anything relevant to say? Or are they just tramps?

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Do they have anything relevant to say? Or are they just tramps?

Elaborating on post #97.