Nine Year Old Kelowna Boy Explains Leaving Hockey Team

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

So should the parents of the superstar kid pay more for registration because thier kid gets more ice time?

This is more applicable for spring hockey than community hockey

Actually there would be more cases of the superstar players parents paying nothing as there are often a few parents who will pay for them if it gives a better shot at winning.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opi...189487451.html

[Northendzone]

^ I know, and I think that is pathetic. If you want to win, practice and get better.

There is no way in the world I would help pay for a kid I don't know to play on my sons team so they could win.....

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

There has been talk of creating a recreational league for kids and not having any contact for example once they reach pee wee and beyond. This could be considered the less-competitive league for those who just want to play recreational. There is a place for this I believe in all sports. Now finding the right coaches for these less competitive leagues is another thing. More about fun and everyone playing, then earning ice time.

There's already a non-contact rec league in Calgary. I know several kids who play in it. Some for the non-contact, some because it's a lower time committment and the schedule is very regular (games are always on the same day of the week).

[hummdeedoo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

There's already a non-contact rec league in Calgary. I know several kids who play in it. Some for the non-contact, some because it's a lower time committment and the schedule is very regular (games are always on the same day of the week).

My understanding is there are no practices just games it costs less and the best part of all - there's no fund raising. Just for fun and little emphasis on development.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by edn88

My son has played 2 years of Novice hockey in Springbank, and in that time have talked to lots of parents both in our association, as well as the other ones. Although there are always concerns about how teams are selected (both valid and not) I have not heard anyone complain that their kid was not getting played enough. My kid was in Novice 5 then Novice 2 (fairly competitive hockey, but not top level). My son was in the lower end of the skill level on his Novice 2 team, and all players got equal ice time. All players had equal chance to play goal as well.

Our Novice 5 coach was quite competitive, and would engineer games so the best forward/defense combos (and goaltender) would face hardest teams, and when we played weaker teams he would have it the other way around. In game, he would sometimes make an adjustment of moving a forward to d, or switching up lines, but all kids got same ice time.

I think quitting hockey outright because of lack of playing time is wrong, there are always other avenues (lower tiers, grass roots hockey, etc) and I think as a parent you need to understand the level of competition that you are putting your kid into, and if they have the mental makeup to thrive in that situation. But quitting a team because you don't get to play at that level of hockey is fair (and if this is just a spring development league - then shame on the coaches - our spring 3 on 3 hockey is first in first out, and if one team is ahead of the other by a lot, we move players onto the other team to even things out.

I'm in Springbank as well, and one advantage is that there are a huge number of teams in each division, which means that on each team the difference between the strongest and weakest skaters is usually not that great. In Pee Wee this year there were 12 teams which was a lot, or so I am told.

I've never had a placement process issue (maybe because I didn't care too much and preferred my kid being placed lower if he was on the bubble).

Our coaches have almost always rolled lines equally as much as possible. A couple coaches created stronger lines (but not PP units), which didn't sit too well with me, because it meant some of the lower lines didn't benefit from having to keep up (and didn't get the sweet passes from the star). And, as I said above, thought they could be tougher on kids who played a shift and a half by not changing when called (meaning some other kid got a half shift).

As an aside, Novice 2 is pretty high level in Springbank because of the number of kids. There were 14 teams the year my kid played Novice (he only played one year of N because he started late).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by hummdeedoo

My understanding is there are no practices just games it costs less and the best part of all - there's no fund raising. Just for fun and little emphasis on development.

That's mainly true, though I think there are practices at the beginning of the season, then just games. The games I watched (Bantam age) were played at a pretty good skill level. Of course, most of those kids have been developed through regular hockey and a lot were good - they just didn't want the hitting.

One difference is that the skill range on each team is wider since there are far fewer teams. So I suppose there's a chance a lower end kid or a higher end kid would become frustrated with teammates.

[burn_baby_burn]

I guess my son has been really lucky so far in his spring league career (2007 birth year). Same coach for both seasons, and he rotates the kids evenly. Losing, winning, short handed, or on the power play, all three lines rotate evenly. He has juggled lines to try to minimize any weakness. However, we have had a realatively easy spring season so far going 18-1 and winning the ONE hockey tournament in Calgary, Thrive tournament in Olds, and the Alberta Champions Cup. I know that another age group in the same program has a coach who is shortening the bench, with little results, and the parents are not happy. Even though spring hockey is unsanctioned, it is a business. Teams want to win, however, if a coach is a complete jerk, the owner of the program has to be mindful of returning customers. And I have already heard some parents with very strong kids saying they will not play for that coach, ever.

As for minor hockey? Red Deer Minor Hockey has a fair play rule in place. Every kid is supposed to get equal playing time no exceptions. So far, on all my son's teams, that has been the case in all situations. And his team won the city championship this year. Championship game was a little dicey at times with one particular weak player on the ice (bad attitude and lack of effort, not lacking in ability). We also had the best player in the city on his team, his shift was no longer than the worst kid on the team (usually paired together on defense).

[Hanna Sniper]

Red Deer Minor Hockey has a fair play rule in place. Every kid is supposed to get equal playing time no exceptions

Things like this make me laugh, because it's basically impossible to have equal ice time in a game that changes on the fly... you can try as hard as you can and no matter what you do all 15 skaters wont have the exact same ice time.

So now you're just negotiating what is considered equal ice time. Equal ice time is a false bs word.

[Bill Bumface]

This thread reminds me of Edge School. We have ice times there, and it's hilarious when we are there the weekends of tournaments. A bunch of parents that dished out $20,000 and couldn't feel anymore insecure about the specialness of their little snowflake if they tried. And a bunch of kids who are so entitled and filled with false confidence a good chunk of them will drive the nicest car they ever own in high school, and the rest will have some tough years while they grow up and figure it out and turn into people very different than their parents with a valuable perspective on how they don't want their kid's lives to be.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

Things like this make me laugh, because it's basically impassible to have equal ice time in a game that changes on the fly... you can try as hard as you can and no matter what you do all 15 skaters wont have the exact same ice time.

So now you're just negotiating what is considered equal ice time. Equal ice time is a false bs word.

In fairness, his kid is 8 which means Novice, which means far less changing on the fly, and a lot more whistles.

You are right that changing on the fly = not equal ice time. It's impossible even without it. But coaches can keep track and try to equalize it. On our teams assistant coaches ran the lines, so they could keep better track. My complaint was, as I mentioned above, nothing much happened to kids who ignoerd line change calls.

[Jason14h]

This thread reminds me of Edge School. We have ice times there, and it's hilarious when we are there the weekends of tournaments. A bunch of parents that dished out $20,000 and couldn't feel anymore insecure about the specialness of their little snowflake if they tried. And a bunch of kids who are so entitled and filled with false confidence a good chunk of them will drive the nicest car they ever own in high school, and the rest will have some tough years while they grow up and figure it out and turn into people very different than their parents with a valuable perspective on how they don't want their kid's lives to be.

The following players may disagree

• Thomas Hickey (New York Islanders)[2]
• Joe Colborne (Calgary Flames)[3]
• Tyler Myers (Buffalo Sabres)[4]
• Matt Dumba (Minnesota Wild)[5]

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The following players may disagree

• Thomas Hickey (New York Islanders)[2]
• Joe Colborne (Calgary Flames)[3]
• Tyler Myers (Buffalo Sabres)[4]
• Matt Dumba (Minnesota Wild)[5]

Those guys would have made the NHL anyway I'm sure. Colborne's family is loaded, and they did a great job of raising a kid who comes across as very grounded an appreciative. And yes, I bet his car now is at least as nice as the one he drove to Edge!

All of their teammates likely turned into stellar beer leaguers. You know, where you are judged by the quantity and type of beer you bring when it's your turn. Their mom's will be so sad they'll buy a hand bag and book a plastic surgery procedure to distract them.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

Things like this make me laugh, because it's basically impossible to have equal ice time in a game that changes on the fly... you can try as hard as you can and no matter what you do all 15 skaters wont have the exact same ice time.

So now you're just negotiating what is considered equal ice time. Equal ice time is a false bs word.

No, equal ice time is rolling lines, putting the next player up on the bench. It isn't running a stop watch and ensuring the minutes/seconds are the same. It is about not shortening the bench and taking away ice time from players.

There will be shifts that are long, there will be shifts that are short, it is the nature of the game. I think you are being to pedantic in the meaning of "equal ice time" .

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The following players may disagree

• Thomas Hickey (New York Islanders)[2]
• Joe Colborne (Calgary Flames)[3]
• Tyler Myers (Buffalo Sabres)[4]
• Matt Dumba (Minnesota Wild)[5]

So you have identified 4 out of how many players..........

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

No, equal ice time is rolling lines, putting the next player up on the bench. It isn't running a stop watch and ensuring the minutes/seconds are the same. It is about not shortening the bench and taking away ice time from players.

There will be shifts that are long, there will be shifts that are short, it is the nature of the game. I think you are being to pedantic in the meaning of "equal ice time" .

Not as much as you think, let me guess, rolling those lines I bet the 3rd line is on for shorter shift on average then that first line... I doubt the 3rd line also starts the game or periods much

Rolling the lines doesn't equal fair ice time either

Having equal ice time is a very hard task, and even one that is 100% committed to it you will find that something's are just out of your control

it's a bs word

[Murph]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

So you have identified 4 out of how many players..........

Don't you go citing any actual research now! Anecdotal evidence reigns supreme around here, don't ya know...

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

Not as much as you think, let me guess, rolling those lines I bet the 3rd line is on for shorter shift on average then that first line... I doubt the 3rd line also starts the game or periods much

Rolling the lines doesn't equal fair ice time either

Having equal ice time is a very hard task, and even one that is 100 commuted to it you will find that something are just out of your control

it's a bs word

Actually when I coach, I ensure that the line that was up at the end of the period is on to start the next period, it isn't too hard. As the period winds down you turn to next line and say "you are starting the period".

I agree that there are some players that take longer shifts. You as a coach need to address that, and as long as the expecation is set out then you can hold them accountable.

If the shift is too long you get to sit a shift. You need to communicate with the player on why they are sitting.

You can say it is a "bs word" (it is actually two words) but it is is worth trying to attain.

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Actually when I coach, I ensure that the line that was up at the end of the period is on to start the next period, it isn't too hard. As the period winds down you turn to next line and say "you are starting the period".

I agree that there are some players that take longer shifts. You as a coach need to address that, and as long as the expecation is set out then you can hold them accountable.

If the shift is too long you get to sit a shift. You need to communicate with the player on why they are sitting.

You can say it is a "bs word" (it is actually two words) but it is is worth trying to attain.

Where did i say it wasn't worth trying to attain, if fact I said if you 100% committed to it you still wont achieve it.

There's too many variables there is no such thing as equal ice time.

I've found that the coach that believe they are certain they roll the lines and even find it easy are the worst at trying to equal the ice time on their team

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

Where did i say it wasn't worth trying to attain, if fact I said if you 100% committed to it you still wont achieve it.

There's too many variables there is no such thing as equal ice time.

I've found that the coach that believe they are certain they roll the lines and even find it easy are the worst at trying to equal the ice time on their team

Again, I think you are stuck on the word "equal".

What would be a word that would be aesthetically more please to you?

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by Murph

Don't you go citing any actual research now! Anecdotal evidence reigns supreme around here, don't ya know...

would you give any credibility to emperical evidence?

to me equal ice time means that over the course of the game you are not going to give a select group of kids 25 minutes - it means that you make an attemtp to make it fair. And over the course of a season it likely works itself out. if parents are sitting there with a stopwatch then they are mental.

if i was the dad of the player in the original post i'd be mad if i paid the same amount of fees and my son only got so few shifts. if the kid was not good enough for the team, then they should have had a discussion with the parent and said here is your money back we are going with anotehr player of is of the cliber we are looking for. Otherwise, get a coach working directly with the kid and help him get better.....nobody gets better when they sit on the bench.