Omar Khadr back in Canada

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Dagger

Shocking that he could be released. Now is the time to take a tough stance and send a message to those out there thinking of following in his footsteps.

The message is clear, we let anyone hide behind the Canadian flag no matter their crimes. The whole family should have been deported long ago. But what we'll do instead is let them stay and give them a pile of money for “injustices” they “suffered”.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by sharkov

He should be in a POW camp for the rest of the War on Terror

For sure.

When do you think victory in that particular war will be declared though? Will we be living on Venus then? And if so, will we take him with us?

[fatso]

I'm not sure of my opinion on all this yet, but I don't get the crying about him receiving bail. No final determination has been made as I understand it, it's just that he's been properly granted bail under Canadian law.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/20...hadr-bail.html

If you think the judge was just a namby-pamby liberal or somehow diverged from established Canadian law, you might want to check that and take up your concerns with the "tough on crime" Harper Government:

From the Star article:

But [Public Safety Minister] Blaney’s portrayal of Khadr as a dangerous terrorist is in stark contrast to what government lawyers said about the 28-year-old in court.

There was no evidence presented at Khadr’s March bail hearing to argue he posed a risk to society — a fact noted by Ross in her ruling Friday — nor did Department of Justice lawyers refute submissions about Khadr’s exemplary behaviour in custody.

...

But [Justice] Ross concluded that the “right to seek bail pending appeal is a principle of fundamental justice,” and Khadr’s right is guaranteed under Canada’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

If seeking bail is a constitutional right (you know, the things we're defending against the terrorists), the judge can only rule on the evidence put before him or her. Seems to me that if Khadr is a threat to the public whilst out on bail, the gov't lawyers either disagree or did a poor job or... he might not be a threat to the public on bail as the judge ruled.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by terminator

Finally the right thing. Releasing a child soldier.

I love the double standards, save african child soldiers and kill Muslim ones

To clarify, he was 15 at the time he was caught, which puts him outside the definition of a child soldier, and no one here is proposing that we kill him. And although he was a child in many ways at the time he was fighting, we shouldn't execute him, but we shouldn't just let him walk free either. He was indeed a soldier and a POW.

That being said, I don't see any reason to charge him as an adult. He's already served about 10 years in prison. So even if he is found guilty of something eventually, he'll probably walk. And I'd agree he should.

It should also be kept in mind that the Canadian government and public has paid a great cost to this family already. The father was back and forth between militant groups. He came back injured multiple times, and Canadian taxpayers paid for his treatment. The Canadian courts have also resisted moves to deport several members of the family to the US court, and rescued the father, Ahmed, from a Pakistani court. So despite your accusation that people want to kill these people, we've actually spent millions repairing their wounds and stopping them from being deported to the much harsher US system or rotting in Pakistani prisons.

If we are going to accept that Omar Khadr is a child soldier, that suggests that he was not capable of making the decisions to do what he did and someone else put him up to it. My question is why are we not pursuing his family. Specifically, I'm talking about his mother and older siblings.

[110%]

What definition of child soldier does not include someone who is 15? UNICEF, Amnesty International, the Paris Principles on the Involvement of Children in Armed Conflict from 2007 and essentially all other sources indicate 18 as the threshold age.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by 110%

What definition of child soldier does not include someone who is 15? UNICEF, Amnesty International, the Paris Principles on the Involvement of Children in Armed Conflict from 2007 and essentially all other sources indicate 18 as the threshold age.

It depends.

Just going off of memory from a debate on this a while ago, but the original 1949 UN resolution or whatever you would call it, said that for involuntary service (conscription), then 18 is age that would separate a "child" from an adult, however volunteers could be accepted at a minimum age of 15.

Some years later, there was some kind of optional amendment that raised that minimum volunteer age to 16. I am not sure what countries adopted it however.

[llwhiteoutll]

It's not like he was there under duress or his family was being held hostage and he was compelled to fight. He was willingly providing material support to a terrorist group and acted as an unlawful combatant. He made the choice to leave Canada to fight in Afghanistan, something he knew full well could involve him murdering Canadian or American soldiers, something he admitted to doing when he took responsibility for Sgt. Speer's death.

I think most people take issue with the refusal of the Canadian government to act and deport the entire family. Instead they reap the rewards of being Canadian, while acting to Canada's detriment. All that this shows potential followers is that Canada will swoop in if they get in trouble for their illegal actions and they will face no repercussions, and most likely receive financial payouts, once they return to Canada.

[110%]

His father left him alone with a taliban group. It's not like Omar could get on expedia from taliban headquarters to book a trip home.

As far as any admission of guilt is concerned, he was almost certainly tortured for those admissions and therefore those admissions are unreliable are essentially worthless. The military courts at Guantanamo Bay are deemed kangaroo courts by every western country (except Canada). There is so much evidence that contradicts or disproves the US story its shocking how anyone can actually believe it. The only reason he submitted the plea was to have any chance of ever getting out of US custody.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by 110%

What definition of child soldier does not include someone who is 15? UNICEF, Amnesty International, the Paris Principles on the Involvement of Children in Armed Conflict from 2007 and essentially all other sources indicate 18 as the threshold age.

I separate him from the common concept of the child soldier, he was a willing and gleeful convert. He wasn't abused and beaten or addicted to drugs, his family wasn't held hostage.

Even as he's grown older he's never rescinded his extremist views, he continued to boast about the soldier that he killed.

If he was willing to come out and publicly denounce his former extremists views and spend time talking to at risk kids, I would feel a lot better about it.

As it stands he was working for the enemy of Canada when he was over there, and to me that merits treason.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by 110%

His father left him alone with a taliban group. It's not like Omar could get on expedia from taliban headquarters to book a trip home.

As far as any admission of guilt is concerned, he was almost certainly tortured for those admissions and therefore those admissions are unreliable are essentially worthless. The military courts at Guantanamo Bay are deemed kangaroo courts by every western country (except Canada). There is so much evidence that contradicts or disproves the US story its shocking how anyone can actually believe it. The only reason he submitted the plea was to have any chance of ever getting out of US custody.

He's on video making bombs. There's no doubt that he was participating in hostility.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by 110%

What definition of child soldier does not include someone who is 15? UNICEF, Amnesty International, the Paris Principles on the Involvement of Children in Armed Conflict from 2007 and essentially all other sources indicate 18 as the threshold age.

No. Most sources indicate people between the age of 15-18 who voluntarily take part in combat as regular soldiers. 18 is a very western age for the concept of adulthood.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I separate him from the common concept of the child soldier, he was a willing and gleeful convert. He wasn't abused and beaten or addicted to drugs, his family wasn't held hostage.

Even as he's grown older he's never rescinded his extremist views, he continued to boast about the soldier that he killed.

If he was willing to come out and publicly denounce his former extremists views and spend time talking to at risk kids, I would feel a lot better about it.

As it stands he was working for the enemy of Canada when he was over there, and to me that merits treason.

That. As an adult, he has repeatedly declined to denounce what he had done and apologize for the harm he had caused to his victims. He is now and will remain a hard-core hater of Canada. He should have stayed in prison.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by 110%

What definition of child soldier does not include someone who is 15? UNICEF, Amnesty International, the Paris Principles on the Involvement of Children in Armed Conflict from 2007 and essentially all other sources indicate 18 as the threshold age.

He is not a child soldier. According to the UN:

"In 1989, the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, Article 38, proclaimed: "State parties shall take all feasible measures to ensure that persons who have not attained the age of 15 years do not take a direct part in hostilities." However, people who are over the age of 15 but under the age of 18 are still voluntarily able to take part in combat as soldiers"

[terminator]

Hilarious, I know if he was not a muslim this would not be the case. Just to clarify I'm not a muslim so this is not a personal agenda.

But the polarization in views here is terrible. How many 15 year olds do you know? Do you remember being 15? Where you capable of making such a decision coherently? Is it justifiable to place a child in G-bay? FFS, he kid has spent most of his life in isolation.

[Flamenspiel]

^^Well everyone has an opinion, the fact is that its a matter of UN Law and covered by article 38.

If he would have had Canadian flags on his uniform it would not be an issue. He was legal age to be a soldier and he also happened to be fighting for the other side. If you look back at the second world war, just being of German or Japanese extraction could have landed you in a detention camp, never mind being a hostile combatant.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by terminator

Hilarious, I know if he was not a muslim this would not be the case. Just to clarify I'm not a muslim so this is not a personal agenda.

But the polarization in views here is terrible. How many 15 year olds do you know? Do you remember being 15? Where you capable of making such a decision coherently? Is it justifiable to place a child in G-bay? FFS, he kid has spent most of his life in isolation.

He didn't break a storefront or spilled ink on the principal from the school window. He made bombs, killed and injured people when he was 15-yr old. Then, as he got much older, he refuses to apologize for his actions or even admit that they were wrong.

Which part of the above do you find particularly hilarious?

[terminator]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

He didn't break a storefront or spilled ink on the principal from the school window. He made bombs, killed and injured people when he was 15-yr old. Then, as he got much older, he refuses to apologize for his actions or even admit that they were wrong.

Which part of the above do you find particularly hilarious?

Yup, I'd apologize also if I was first brain washed and injected into a foreign country to fight and then held in Gitmo for years on end.

Jesus, not all muslims are bad.

[terminator]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

^^Well everyone has an opinion, the fact is that its a matter of UN Law and covered by article 38.

If he would have had Canadian flags on his uniform it would not be an issue. He was legal age to be a soldier and he also happened to be fighting for the other side. If you look back at the second world war, just being of German or Japanese extraction could have landed you in a detention camp, never mind being a hostile combatant.

Completely agreed, but at times judgment is beyond all. Also its a different time then WW2 and hope we as people would have learned since then.

[Minnie]

He's been granted bail.

Link

Omar Khadr is now free to start deciding what type of life he wants to live.

Justice Myra Bielby of the Alberta Court of Appeal granted the controversial 28-year-old convicted terrorist bail Thursday morning, reaffirming the ruling from a lower court.

“Khadr’s case is, to say the least, unusual,” Justice Bielby said before announcing her decision. “There’s a first time for everything.”

The Canadian government had asked her to stay Mr. Khadr’s release, pending an appeal of the bail order. It said the release could cause irreparable harm to Canada’s relationship with the United States, and to Canada’s repatriation of prisoners held in foreign jails.

Nathan Whitling, one of Mr. Khadr’s lawyers, said his client is free for good. “Whatever anybody might think of Omar Khadr, he’s now served his time. This is going to be the end of his incarceration.”

He said the Canadian government went to unprecedented lengths to block Mr. Khadr’s bail.

The former Guantanamo Bay prisoner faces numerous restrictions including having to wear a tracking bracelet, observe a nighttime curfew, face limits on contact with his Toronto family, and will live with his lawyer, Dennis Edney, in Edmonton. He would study part-time at King’s University, a small Christian school.

[CaptainCrunch]

limits on contact, there should be no contact on his family, and frankly he's going to have to be watched for a long time to make sure that he doesn't fall in with the wrong type of people.

His family is pure poison.