Red Mile discussion #saferedmile

[Coach]

Originally Posted by sempuki

No, but thankfully no one is doing this. I know I'm a decent guy, but to a stranger I'm a stranger. Put yourself in someone else's shoes and act from a position of empathy -- that's really all that's required.



Indeed it is, but there are some pretty easy ways to cheer without coming across as a creep, or making people feel unsafe. Here, I'll give us an example:

"Yay! Encore! No? Ok, that was awesome. GFG!"



Speaking as a father this has nothing to do with victorian purity or prudishness, and everything to do with not wanting to see anyone in my family suffer. My daughter will one day have the right to a safe and fulfilling sex life, as do all human beings.



Strictly speaking true, but a little application of empathy means you don't have to treat women as objects for your titillation, which is all that's required.



Walking down a street shouldn't be something any human has to be "smart" about -- especially when it's so easy and within our power to change.

Hey, thanks for cherry picking sentences and completely undermining the point of the post! I don't disagree with what SHOULD be, just saying how people should be acting under the reality of what IS. It would be nice to change it and we should all try, but that as it stands, they need to be careful. It's sad but true.

Should people have to suffer and die living on the streets while fat cats hoard billions of dollars? No. Does that mean those people don't have to face the realities of living on the street? No, they absolutely do. Would we all like to change both of these things? Sure, except for the billionaires. Just like the vast majority of us would like to make the RedMile a safe and respectful environment for everyone, except the people who think there's nothing wrong with harassment and groping.

Put yourself in someone else's shoes and act from a position of empathy -- that's really all that's required.

Cool, now go tell it to another 100,000 people AND convince them all you're right.

Again, there is the way things should be, and the way they are. You can defend against realities while also wishing and pushing for how it should be.

Walking down a street shouldn't be something any human has to be "smart" about -- especially when it's so easy and within our power to change.

No, but walking through a mass of 100s of thousands of people requires extra caution no matter where you are, what gender you are or what the people are celebrating/protesting/praying too/whatever.

And again you mention shouldn't have to, something I agreed with and stated throughout my post. You're right, they shouldn't have to. But they do. They do have to. It needs to change, but it hasn't yet. Sorry, life doesn't yield instantaneous results off a few hashtags.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by heep223

Substitute sex with flashing. Still feel the same way? It's more extreme but exactly the same idea.

It's never ok to pressure someone to do something, particularly using a herd mentality. Also particularly when it comes to sexuality and/or personal safety.

I don't give a #### that others are doing it voluntarily. It has no relevance.

Do you mean sex on the Red Mile? Because that is the only way those 2 situations would compare.

No one is saying that voluntarily flashing in private is wrong. When it's done in public, whether voluntary or not, is going to make some people uncomfortable and create an environment where manners and etiquette are altered from the norm.

I actually don't care personally and even if they were having public sex, it wouldn't bother me. The only thing that bothers me is that some women (maybe even a minority) feel uncomfortable and threatened by the flashing and the behavior it leads to. That should be reason alone to make it a no-no (whether completely voluntary or coerced by peer pressure).

[Tacopuck]

Both Men & Women need to exercise common sense and dignity to each other and themselves when in large groups / gatherings; however both Men & Women also need to understand that common sense is not as common as it should be.

That's the Goal versus Reality. One day as a society we will get to the goal, but unfortunately it wont be as fast as some people want it to be (and their not wrong for being upset that its not - but understand nothing in this world is ideal)

[JohnnySkittles]

Flash your cans for Michael Ferland.

[Sakic19]

One that actually makes sense has come up: Strip show for Gaudreau

[Weitz]

Or from the girls in my office: "Show the scrotie for TJ Brodie"

[polak]

Strip Show for Gaudreau is all inclusive.

#Equality

[Senator Clay Davis]

I've never seen someone been given so many chances to eject from a thread in which they're embarrassing themselves, and yet keep coming back for more, like polak is doing in this one.

Credit for stick to it-ness I guess?

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Do you mean sex on the Red Mile? Because that is the only way those 2 situations would compare.

No one is saying that voluntarily flashing in private is wrong. When it's done in public, whether voluntary or not, is going to make some people uncomfortable and create an environment where manners and etiquette are altered from the norm.

I actually don't care personally and even if they were having public sex, it wouldn't bother me. The only thing that bothers me is that some women (maybe even a minority) feel uncomfortable and threatened by the flashing and the behavior it leads to. That should be reason alone to make it a no-no (whether completely voluntary or coerced by peer pressure).

Why does it matter if people feel uncomfortable or threatened? A big man with tattoos and a leather jacket make some people feel uncomfortable or threatened. Does that mean he shouldn't dress this way? A middle aged man without a shirt on makes some people uncomfortable. Doesn't mean it should be illegal to not wear a shirt.

Almost every situation we put ourselves in that result in personal improvement involve some level of feeling uncomfortable and threatened.

Merely making people uncomfortable is not a reason to ban or oppose something. You need a much better reason than this to oppose flashing or any other behavior on the red mile.

That there is an actual threat that results from this behavior is reason to oppose it, but not merely feeling threatened or uncomfortable.

[polak]

Flashing is already banned...

[Nsd1]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I'm not amazed that some people miss the point of some of this. What amazes me is just HOW BADLY some people miss the point.

What is the point of this?

[Nyah]

Polak, you are absolutely intolerable sometimes. Your posts read like a 16 year old's haughty ramblings. From a woman who has experienced harassment firsthand on the Red Mile, I can tell you that it is an issue and the further the Flames get in the playoffs, the bigger of an issue it’ll become. I have a friend whose ass got slapped on Tuesday. She wasn't asking for it and she didn't want it. She doesn't chalk it up to ‘Flames fans’ in general, but she’s won’t be going back to 17th to celebrate either. No fan should feel that they shouldn't participate because they’ll draw the wrong kind of (unwanted) attention, and that’s exactly how she feels. A bunch of women blowing things out of proportion…absolutely not, this movement is meant to bring awareness to people like you who don't think it's that big of a deal. It is a big deal. Honestly, your collection of drivel in this thread is probably the most annoying I've seen from you.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Nyah

Polak, you are absolutely intolerable sometimes. Your posts read like a 16 year old's haughty ramblings. From a woman who has experienced harassment firsthand on the Red Mile, I can tell you that it is an issue and the further the Flames get in the playoffs, the bigger of an issue it’ll become. I have a friend whose ass got slapped on Tuesday. She wasn't asking for it and she didn't want it. She doesn't chalk it up to ‘Flames fans’ in general, but she’s won’t be going back to 17th to celebrate either. No fan should feel that they shouldn't participate because they’ll draw the wrong kind of (unwanted) attention, and that’s exactly how she feels. A bunch of women blowing things out of proportion…absolutely not, this movement is meant to bring awareness to people like you who don't think it's that big of a deal. It is a big deal. Honestly, your collection of drivel in this thread is probably the most annoying I've seen from you.

If I could thank you more than once, I would!

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

Why does it matter if people feel uncomfortable or threatened? A big man with tattoos and a leather jacket make some people feel uncomfortable or threatened. Does that mean he shouldn't dress this way? A middle aged man without a shirt on makes some people uncomfortable. Doesn't mean it should be illegal to not wear a shirt.

Almost every situation we put ourselves in that result in personal improvement involve some level of feeling uncomfortable and threatened.

Merely making people uncomfortable is not a reason to ban or oppose something. You need a much better reason than this to oppose flashing or any other behavior on the red mile.

That there is an actual threat that results from this behavior is reason to oppose it, but not merely feeling threatened or uncomfortable.

Well, flashing is actually illegal, so at some point someone or group of people decided that it was unwanted enough to make a law about it. As far as I know, large men with tattoos and leather jackets are legal.

We can start a whole philosophical debate of whether or not flashing/public nudity should be legal.

It's sad, but there seems to be a lot of men (albeit a minority) that turn wild when something arouses them. For that reason, I think the law is justified. When the same thing happens with tattoos, they will probably make a law against those too.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

Why does it matter if people feel uncomfortable or threatened? A big man with tattoos and a leather jacket make some people feel uncomfortable or threatened. Does that mean he shouldn't dress this way? A middle aged man without a shirt on makes some people uncomfortable. Doesn't mean it should be illegal to not wear a shirt.

Almost every situation we put ourselves in that result in personal improvement involve some level of feeling uncomfortable and threatened.

Merely making people uncomfortable is not a reason to ban or oppose something. You need a much better reason than this to oppose flashing or any other behavior on the red mile.

That there is an actual threat that results from this behavior is reason to oppose it, but not merely feeling threatened or uncomfortable.

Amazingly, you managed to stumble ass-backwards into the answer to your own question.

EDIT: You were responding to FlamesAddiction's post, so perhaps I'm being a bit unfair in my sarcastic response. The fact is (and apologies if this is the exact point that you were trying to make), the existence of a real threat to the sexual integrity of female Flames fans is exactly what distinguishes Red Mile ######baggery from the large tattooed man with a leather jacket.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Nyah

Polak, you are absolutely intolerable sometimes. Your posts read like a 16 year old's haughty ramblings. From a woman who has experienced harassment firsthand on the Red Mile, I can tell you that it is an issue and the further the Flames get in the playoffs, the bigger of an issue it’ll become. I have a friend whose ass got slapped on Tuesday. She wasn't asking for it and she didn't want it. She doesn't chalk it up to ‘Flames fans’ in general, but she’s won’t be going back to 17th to celebrate either. No fan should feel that they shouldn't participate because they’ll draw the wrong kind of (unwanted) attention, and that’s exactly how she feels. A bunch of women blowing things out of proportion…absolutely not. Honestly, your collection of drivel in this thread is probably the most annoying I've seen from you.

I'm sorry that your friend got their ass slapped but you're not understanding what I was getting at. I never said women are blowing these individual complaints out of proportion and I totally agree that each case of this happening is pretty ####ed up, as I said earlier. I absolutely agree that you and your friend and every other woman should be able to enjoy the Red Mile with out worrying about being groped or harassed.

What I was getting at was that the Red Mile is being vilified when it shouldn't be. Yes, there are bad apples and '04 gave it a mardi gras sort of reputation (which everyone appeared to be A-OK with back then, including most of you who partook and have talked about how awesome it was and easy it was get laid in countless threads before this one). However Articles being plastered all over the media like this will be brought up in other cities and will not only deter people from going down but also create a bad image for it abroad.

Sure, it seems there are a lot of stories like this coming out now so I guess I was wrong in saying it wasn't an a issue. I saw nothing to suggest that anything of that sorts was going on, hence why I thought the articles were flawed and didn't like how it was being singled out.

Honestly if it was like it was in '04 I probably would agree with the articles from the beginning. But when my experience was so vastly different then the picture the article paints and when the article is painting pretty much the worst possible image one could paint of the Red Mile, I'm going to say that I don't agree. Now that this is all coming to light I'll be more cognoscente of the issue going forward.

As for the rest of my posts after I "rested my case" if you will, I'm just having fun. Nothing hateful or mean was said towards anyone. I think some people might be getting a little too sensitive to posts on an internet message board.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Amazingly, you managed to stumble ass-backwards into the answer to your own question.

EDIT: You were responding to FlamesAddiction's post, so perhaps I'm being a bit unfair in my sarcastic response. The fact is (and apologies if this is the exact point that you were trying to make), the existence of a real threat to the sexual integrity of female Flames fans is exactly what distinguishes Red Mile ######baggery from the large tattooed man with a leather jacket.

Seriously, stop talking about me.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

Seriously, stop talking about me.

Please don't hurt me.

[Matata]

I avoid the red mile because it has become a nexus for horny losers.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Matata

I avoid the red mile because it has become a nexus for horny losers.

Case and point.

I just don't understand how people are jumping to this conclusion. I saw one guy, ONE GUY actually chanting for boobs or anything of the sorts. Now it's a nexus for horny losers?

If walking down the street, giving high fives, chanting go flames go, burning canuck jerseys and drinking beer and watching a band preform in that park where Melrose used to be with out getting in trouble by the police is what horny losers do then I guess it is, cause that's literally what my experience and the experience of every person I was with was.