Red Mile discussion #saferedmile

[rubecube]

I like how polak's argument is basically "Well, I haven't seen it, so it must not be happening, and anyone who says it is labeling me as a rapist!"

[GioforPM]

I've been to enough European (and even some Mexican) beaches to not have a junior high reaction to bare boobs. And, while she has the right to do it (give or take a few nudity laws) a girl lifting her top in front of a bunch of leering drunks is just kinda sad. And I don't think some of them bargain for being put onto the internet.

But I'm betting plenty of girls that don't lift their tops nonetheless get chanted and yelled at by dopes who think they can convice them by repetition to the point aren't having fun any more and have to leave.

[polak]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I like how polak's argument is basically "Well, I haven't seen it, so it must not be happening, and anyone who says it is labeling me as a rapist!"

If it happens once, does it make the entire red mile some big sexual harassment mecca?

Originally Posted by mennoknight

These threads are a great source when I need to find out just exactly who is a complete knob with 100% wrong opinions.

Has anyone been on the other side of this issue?

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Bunk

But if a girl in the crowd (who may or may not have any desire to disrobe in public) is chanted at by a bunch of drunk guys to do so, isn't that in itself sexual harassment? Doesn't matter whether it causes her to do something or not.

I sense an undercurrent from some of "hey, why can't we just have our fun? Big deal if there's some collateral damage".

Hey, I like boobs as much as the next guy, but there seems a time, a place and a way to see boobs that doesn't make people feel uncomfortable to walk around in their own neighbourhood or revel in the celebration of their team's victory. Maybe it's the Dad of a daughter in me...

I'm not saying its right... I'm saying that everyone knows the issue exists including these women who chose to go down there and put themselves in the middle of the crowd and chose to lift their shirts regardless of being chanted at or not.

I get the concept of #saferedmile, and everyone being able to share equally for the joy of celebration and certain groups are taking it too far. But being there and participating while knowing what is taking place is essentially participating in the act.

Its not like these girls are being blindsided.

If they chose to go down there, they need to be prepared to potentially be harassed, in that be prepared to protect themselves by removing themselves from the situation and/or standing up against it.

It's not right, but these guys are being encouraged by the girls that are actually lifting their shirts and enjoying the crowds chanting at other girls lifting g their shirts. In many pictures, girls are seen chanting and smiling and cheering on these girls.

As much as guys are responsible for being g A-holes, girls are equally as responsible. IMO.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Bunk

I think the point being to encourage people to apply peer pressure toward those who are not acting appropriately.

If you read the articles and twitter stuff, this discussion germinated from incidents that have occurred in the past couple weeks - one being the dude with the words on chest getting egged on by fellow dudes while the woman walked away feeling uncomfortable and harassed.

Sam Fodor ‏@SamanthaFodor19h19 hours ago
@CalgaryPolice @elizaboothy @nenshi Is this acceptable? #saferedmile All I know -I left down an alley, he got high 5s

The "dude" is an idiot for sure, but I hope she doesn't think that he should be arrested for it.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by heep223

The chanting, pressuring, herd mentality of a drunken mob of men makes women feel unsafe, unwelcome, and uncomfortable. Just stop doing it, regardless of the technical definition of assault etc. It's not funny, it's not cool, it's just dumb.

Hey if a girl jumps on the hood of a car out of nowhere and shows her boobs, that's cool, but stop with the chanting holy #### it just makes you look like a horny 15 year old.

Isn't that what kind of started the whole thing though? I didn't attend any of the original 04 Red Mile fun (I was down in Lethbridge), but from what I recall following it vicariously through others, there were some "Cowboys" girls with obvious breast augmentations lifting their shirts for attention, then other girls started doing it, then men started demanding it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I'm not saying its right... I'm saying that everyone knows the issue exists including these women who chose to go down there and put themselves in the middle of the crowd and chose to lift their shirts regardless of being chanted at or not.

I get the concept of #saferedmile, and everyone being able to share equally for the joy of celebration and certain groups are taking it too far. But being there and participating while knowing what is taking place is essentially participating in the act.

Its not like these girls are being blindsided.

If they chose to go down there, they need to be prepared to potentially be harassed, in that be prepared to protect themselves by removing themselves from the situation and/or standing up against it.

It's not right, but these guys are being encouraged by the girls that are actually lifting their shirts and enjoying the crowds chanting at other girls lifting g their shirts. In many pictures, girls are seen chanting and smiling and cheering on these girls.

As much as guys are responsible for being g A-holes, girls are equally as responsible. IMO.

So if girls want to head down 17th after a game for a drink, they should "prepare to be harrassed"? That doesn't quite seem right.

[Tinordi]

If they chose to go down there, they need to be prepared to potentially be harassed, in that be prepared to protect themselves by removing themselves from the situation and/or standing up against it.

A genuinely insensitive, stupid, entitled, unreflective and depressing statement to think or say.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by polak

If it happens once, does it make the entire red mile some big sexual harassment mecca?

So if someone has it happen to them, they shouldn't speak out about it? I don't think the media is doing anything wrong by asking people to be mindful of what they're doing. If you're not one of the people behaving like this or promoting behaviour like this, then the whole thing doesn't apply to you. The only people being labeled as rapey are the delta bravos acting rapey.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Bunk

But if a girl in the crowd (who may or may not have any desire to disrobe in public) is chanted at by a bunch of drunk guys to do so, isn't that in itself sexual harassment? Doesn't matter whether it causes her to do something or not.

I sense an undercurrent from some of "hey, why can't we just have our fun? Big deal if there's some collateral damage".

Hey, I like boobs as much as the next guy, but there seems a time, a place and a way to see boobs that doesn't make people feel uncomfortable to walk around in their own neighbourhood or revel in the celebration of their team's victory. Maybe it's the Dad of a daughter in me...

A bunch of drunk 18- 20 something year olds partying in the streets into the wee hours seems like a pretty good time and place for this does it not?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

If they chose to go down there, they need to be prepared to potentially be harassed, in that be prepared to protect themselves by removing themselves from the situation and/or standing up against it.

And here comes the victim-blaming.

[polak]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So if girls want to head down 17th after a game for a drink, they should "prepare to be harrassed"? That doesn't quite seem right.

Yeah that attitude makes me think I might be wrong

Come on, Bunk.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So if girls want to head down 17th after a game for a drink, they should "prepare to be harrassed"? That doesn't quite seem right.

Originally Posted by Tinordi

A genuinely insensitive, stupid, entitled, unreflective and depressing statement to think or say.

Thank you I was also just about to respond.


This attitude is completely ####ing stupid and the writer should be ashamed.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I'm not saying its right... I'm saying that everyone knows the issue exists including these women who chose to go down there and put themselves in the middle of the crowd and chose to lift their shirts regardless of being chanted at or not.

I get the concept of #saferedmile, and everyone being able to share equally for the joy of celebration and certain groups are taking it too far. But being there and participating while knowing what is taking place is essentially participating in the act.

Its not like these girls are being blindsided.

If they chose to go down there, they need to be prepared to potentially be harassed, in that be prepared to protect themselves by removing themselves from the situation and/or standing up against it.

It's not right, but these guys are being encouraged by the girls that are actually lifting their shirts and enjoying the crowds chanting at other girls lifting g their shirts. In many pictures, girls are seen chanting and smiling and cheering on these girls.

As much as guys are responsible for being g A-holes, girls are equally as responsible. IMO.

No, they're not. I don't want to put words in your mouth here, but this sounds a lot like "if you don't want to get cat-called or asked to take your top off, don't go to the red mile, because cat-calling and repeated requests for nudity is just what happens there."

That is the opposite of a fun and inclusive environment. The point is to make it a good environment for everyone, not to exclude people for not wanting to have to put up with sexist jerk behaviour. And not to make participation contingent upon accepting that behaviour as an inevitability, because it obviously isn't. It's not like guys can't help being drooling idiots.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So if girls want to head down 17th after a game for a drink, they should "prepare to be harrassed"? That doesn't quite seem right.

Sure but did you see what she was wearing? She was practically begging for it.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

If they chose to go down there, they need to be prepared to potentially be harassed, in that be prepared to protect themselves by removing themselves from the situation and/or standing up against it.

"It was her fault, judge, for wearing a low cut shirt". What a terrible, terrible argument.

EDIT: beaten to the punch multiple times here

[heep223]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Isn't that what kind of started the whole thing though? I didn't attend any of the original 04 Red Mile fun (I was down in Lethbridge), but from what I recall following it vicariously through others, there were some "Cowboys" girls with obvious breast augmentations lifting their shirts for attention, then other girls started doing it, then men started demanding it.

Yes.

And?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

As much as guys are responsible for being g A-holes, girls are equally as responsible. IMO.

This is grade-A classic victim blaming.

My wife is a Flames fan. She's wearing her jersey to work today and is looking forward to watching the game tonight. We also happen to live in the Beltline three blocks away from the Red Mile. If the Flames win, we'll likely head over to 17th to enjoy the atmosphere, merriment, and excitement of the crowd reveling in the glow of victory.

If she (or any other woman) receives unwanted harassment or chants to show her tits, she has ZERO fault in the matter. The only people to blame are the jackasses who are ruining what should be a fun time for everyone, not the women who just want to join the celebration.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by polak

Yeah that attitude makes me think I might be wrong

Come on, Bunk.

The funny (well not really funny) thing is comments like IgiTang's do way more to paint the Red Mile denizens as a bunch of salivating rapists than any of the SJW comments you've had issue with do.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

from what I recall following it vicariously through others, there were some "Cowboys" girls with obvious breast augmentations lifting their shirts for attention

Sounds good to me.

then other girls started doing it,

Also sounds pretty okay.

then men started demanding it.

Whoa, hey, sudden hard left turn into "not cool" territory.