[Trade] Flames trade Baertschi to VAN for a 2015 2nd round pick (Baertschi requested trade)

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

Man, he sounds like a spoiled brat.

Sven, do you think you could have got your confidence ever in Calgary?
“At times, the expectations, didn’t seem I could reach them.”
What kind of expectations?
“What I thought, there were things they wanted me to do, they wanted me to play a different game than what I’ve played before, which is why I was drafted high.
“It gets tougher to get your game back on track. When you can’t reach those expectations, as a player, you might lose some confidence.
“It wasn’t a good fit for a lot of reasons.”
Hartley, Burke are good places to start.


We have young guys like Monahan, Gaudreau, Jooris, Grandlund, Brodie, Bouma, and Ferland working their tales off to be in the line up every night. And then you have Baertschi complaining that expectations were too high and the style of game the Flames played didn't work for him. I'm glad he is gone from the Flames organization.

I have always defended him in the 'attitude' debates, but I don't like the bolded comment one bit. I am not going to try and defend that.

[Roof-Daddy]

Although the jury isn't completely out on Erixon, I could see Sven becoming the forward version of him. Good AHL numbers, but their games just don't seem to translate to the big stage.

Both may end up in Europe.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I have always defended him in the 'attitude' debates, but I don't like the bolded comment one bit. I am not going to try and defend that.

Exactly. That's the kind of stuff he was probably saying to the coaches and management but not saying in the media.

Those are the red flags a guy like Burke gets brought in to assess and probably the reason he's no longer with our organization.

[Robbob]

I think one only has to look at Granlund in our system. He was a pretty decent scorer coming out of the draft. He lead the farm team in scoring (set a new record for the Heat/Knights/Flames IIRC). You see him taking a different role and evolving to become a more complete player. Oddly enough he just passed Sven for goals scored in the NHL. He is yet another player that passed Sven in development.

The sooner Sven gets it that you need to play a complete game the sooner he will be an effective NHLer.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

All that and...
He's just not good enough an offensive player to be deficient in other areas. The observations last night from some Canuck fans were bang on.
- He wasn't effective on the 3rd line because he's not a good enough two-way player, and not physical
- He needs to play on a scoring line, but didn't show enough to warrant graduating to the top 6

This is why the Flames were trying to round out his game. He's just not good enough to be an offense-only player. He risks turning into a tweener if he is unable to add some other dimensions to his game.

IMO he's a slightly better Nigel Dawes. A complimentary player with enough skill to score 20 goals in the NHL but not good enough to score 30 or dominate foes with his game. His deficiencies however don't make him reliable in a top 6 role game in game out and he's can't play a bottom 6 role where he may have to play any checking, physical or defensive role.

[Northendzone]

I know some guys who are making plans for Nigel. They only want what's best for him.

Anyways, that seems like a great comparator

[D as in David]

I don't think it was so much that he was asked to change his game as much as he was asked to add to his game. That's the part I think Sven didn't get and still doesn't get.

[JohnnySkittles]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

Man, he sounds like a spoiled brat.

Sven, do you think you could have got your confidence ever in Calgary?
“At times, the expectations, didn’t seem I could reach them.”
What kind of expectations?
“What I thought, there were things they wanted me to do, they wanted me to play a different game than what I’ve played before, which is why I was drafted high.
“It gets tougher to get your game back on track. When you can’t reach those expectations, as a player, you might lose some confidence.
“It wasn’t a good fit for a lot of reasons.”
Hartley, Burke are good places to start.


We have young guys like Monahan, Gaudreau, Jooris, Grandlund, Brodie, Bouma, and Ferland working their tales off to be in the line up every night. And then you have Baertschi complaining that expectations were too high and the style of game the Flames played didn't work for him. I'm glad he is gone from the Flames organization.

Okay..I really do not like that comment. Just because you were drafted high doesn't mean that you can't/shouldn't alter your game. There are dozens of former top 10/1st rounders that had to change their games completely when they got to the NHL. Just because you were a 50 goal scoring offensive guy in junior, doesn't mean that will be your role in the NHL. Hell it wasn't even altering Svens game, they just wanted him to play both sides of the puck.

[Vinny01]

The one thing I still don't get is why there is so much love for this kid? 3 years ago he came in and played amazing and scored 3 goals in 5 games. He seemed like the next big star in Calgary.

Since then he performance has been mediocre. He pouted when he was sent to the prospects tourney in Penticton in 2013, and has been a big disappointment since.

It then comes out that he was not going to sign with the organization and requested a trade. The Flames have to trade him to Vancouver because they are the only team that offers something decent.

Put me in the camp that dislikes Sven now and hopes he fails in Vancouver. Outside of that 3 game stint I don't understand why some a Flames fans still like the kid and are hopeful he plays great in Van. Makes no sense to me.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

Okay..I really do not like that comment. Just because you were drafted high doesn't mean that you can't/shouldn't alter your game. There are dozens of former top 10/1st rounders that had to change their games completely when they got to the NHL. Just because you were a 50 goal scoring offensive guy in junior, doesn't mean that will be your role in the NHL. Hell it wasn't even altering Svens game, they just wanted him to play both sides of the puck.

Here's how you read his comment:
Calgary wanted me to play a lick of defense, I just wanted to cherry-pick and play offense. Backchecking made me lose all hope.

Here's how I read his comment:
Calgary wanted us to spend 80% of the game pinned in our own zone blocking shots desperately and generally looking like chickens with their heads cut off but miraculously defying logic with the odd four-on-three rush, I wanted to play on a team that actually spends some time in its own offensive zone like most successful teams in the NHL. I couldn't Out-Lance Bouma the real Lance Bouma so I lost confidence in the parts of my game that I take pride in.

[monkeyman]

Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but I think the signs were there early... The similarities between he and Nino Niederreiter's path to the NHL are interesting and not surprising.
I personally would've let him not sign and let him rot in Europe for a year or two rather than sending him to the Canucks... Maybe Brad's and Brian's willingness to send him to a divisional rival for a second is not only telling about what other teams thought of him, but also just how little they thought of him.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Maybe Brad's and Brian's willingness to send him to a divisional rival for a second is not only telling about what other teams thought of him, but also just how little they thought of him.

Maybe Brad's a classy guy that didn't feel a need to play hardball, especially knowing the return was a solid ~#48 pick in a draft where they might have identified players that really address team needs.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Here's how you read his comment:
Calgary wanted me to play a lick of defense, I just wanted to cherry-pick and play offense. Backchecking made me lose all hope.

Here's how I read his comment:
Calgary wanted us to spend 80% of the game pinned in our own zone blocking shots desperately and generally looking like chickens with their heads cut off but miraculously defying logic with the odd four-on-three rush, I wanted to play on a team that actually spends some time in its own offensive zone like most successful teams in the NHL. I couldn't Out-Lance Bouma the real Lance Bouma so I lost confidence in the parts of my game that I take pride in.

It's not like Baertschi does anything to help a team drive possession though so it seems odd he would feel he's better than this team's 'strategy'. Hyperbole on your part sure, but probably an element of truth there regarding Baertschi's view on things. His comments are pretty damning if you ask me, he's in for a short, rough stay in the NHL if that's his attitude. This league chews up players more talenred then Sven all the time. He's destined to join those ranks unless he can finally get the simple truth that he's not as good as he thinks he is.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Here's how I read his comment:
Calgary wanted us to spend 80% of the game pinned in our own zone blocking shots desperately and generally looking like chickens with their heads cut off but miraculously defying logic with the odd four-on-three rush

Considering that no coach anywhere, ever, in the history of hockey, has wanted his players to do that, you're manufacturing your reading out of thin air.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Here's how you read his comment:
Calgary wanted me to play a lick of defense, I just wanted to cherry-pick and play offense. Backchecking made me lose all hope.

Here's how I read his comment:
Calgary wanted us to spend 80% of the game pinned in our own zone blocking shots desperately and generally looking like chickens with their heads cut off but miraculously defying logic with the odd four-on-three rush, I wanted to play on a team that actually spends some time in its own offensive zone like most successful teams in the NHL. I couldn't Out-Lance Bouma the real Lance Bouma so I lost confidence in the parts of my game that I take pride in.

Which explains why the Flames have scored more goals than the Nucks this year.

Also, Granlund (8G) and Jooris (12G) say hi.

Baertschi's 1st 4 partial seasons in the NHL:

2011/12..: 5 games, 3G
2012/13: 20 games, 3G
2013/14: 26 games, 2G
2014/15: 16 games, 0G

So I really don't see how he's in a position to tell the Flames how the game is supposed to be played.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Maybe Brad's a classy guy that didn't feel a need to play hardball, especially knowing the return was a solid ~#48 pick in a draft where they might have identified players that really address team needs.

So you're suggesting that Treliving made the trade out of altruism and wasn't concerned about getting the best return possible for his OWN team?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Maybe Brad's and Brian's willingness to send him to a divisional rival for a second is not only telling about what other teams thought of him, but also just how little they thought of him.

I think this is right on the money. I think this says how much confidence they have Baertschi is going to bust. You don't trade an asset you have faith will be a NHL player to a division rival desperate for young NHL talent. I think this says they believe Baertschi is broken and will never find the mental game to be a NHL player.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by New Era

I think this is right on the money. I think this says how much confidence they have Baertschi is going to bust. You don't trade an asset you have faith will be a NHL player to a division rival desperate for young NHL talent. I think this says they believe Baertschi is broken and will never find the mental game to be a NHL player.

In fact, Treliving made it sound at the time like in spite of it being a divisional rival, this was the best value they'd been offered for Sven all season. He sold as high as he could.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So you're suggesting that Treliving made the trade out of altruism and wasn't concerned about getting the best return possible for his OWN team?

No, I'm suggesting that both were factors. I'm simply saying that lumping Treliving in with Burke as a single entity that thinks nothing of Sven is a bit silly. Conroy, Burke, Treliving, Pascal, and Hartley all must have had their own takes on the player's value. From Treliving's actions (calling up Sven twice, including later in the season after the all star break) I don't just lump him with Burke.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by D as in David

I don't think it was so much that he was asked to change his game as much as he was asked to add to his game. That's the part I think Sven didn't get and still doesn't get.

Exacty, Hartley said he wanted Monahan and Johnny to play the game the right way and the offense would come. We have not heard either of them complain once about doing whats asked of them. Sven seems to want to follow his own mold while putting himself on a bit of a pedestal. Hartley isn't stupid he knows Sven is talented but first needs everyone to buy in to the team concept. I think if Sven seems easily butt hurt and that affects his own confidence. The Flames gave him more opportunities than a lot of players ever get in a lifetime yet he still doesn't realize this. Sven acts like the Flames owe him a favor or that he should be treated better than the next guy beside him "who is willing to buy in and do what the coach asks of him". If that's not a sense of entitlement then he still has some growing up to do.