Could Putin turn into a modern day Hitler?

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Pointman

USA were quick to recognize new government and offer them a package of 15 billions to help them. I thought, the basic principle of democracy is that you can not take power by the force. However, those people took power by the force and got instant open support from US. Which makes it a pretty legit guess that they had this support from the start.

http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/1.576290

So you're president (Tsar) is mad because Ukraine didn't follow his orders and follow him no matter what and wanted to go further west? It's not okay for people who are tired of Russian rule to finally get the balls to fight back?

[Hack&Lube]

There are huge parallels right now to the 30's and Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler. The land grab in Ukraine right now is very similar to Hitler's policy of Lebensraum.

That said, the Isreali's have been operating on their own policies of grabbing more "living space" for decades with little to no interference internationally.

This sets the example that if a strong-man state wants to annex more territory, that they can just go ahead and do it and the West/EU/NATO will do nothing.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

There are huge parallels right now to the 30's and Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler. The land grab in Ukraine right now is very similar to Hitler's policy of Lebensraum.

That said, the Isreali's have been operating on their own policies of grabbing more "living space" for decades with little to no interference internationally.

This sets the example that if a strong-man state wants to annex more territory, that they can just go ahead and do it and the West/EU/NATO will do nothing.

I'd be willing to bet that some dont care because of the Holocaust and that the people they're taking the land from are not white.

[blueski]

Thought this article was worthy of a thread bump. Argues that Putin's rise to power was directly caused by a false flag series of apartment bombings orchestrated by Putin and the FSB to create a pretext for a harsh crackdown on Chechnya:
http://reprints.longform.org/putin-c...story-anderson

[fulham]

Comparing Hitler directly to Putin is idiotic

The western backed coup of the Yanukovich Government, gave Putin a golden opportunity to take Crimea, and justify occupying ethic Russian parts of Ukraine.

He can play the "Protecting ethnic russians from the illegitimate anti russian army" card and technically be correct.( Theres a great VICE documentary on how insane the anti russian protestors who ousted Yanukovich are, and similarly how insane the Ethnic Russian(russian backed) Militias in the east are).

Really is a Crazy situation, with the average Ukrainian not caring about distinctions like Russian-Ukrainian, and European-ukrainian

[Bindair Dundat]

Originally Posted by fulham

Comparing Hitler directly to Putin is idiotic

The western backed coup of the Yanukovich Government, gave Putin a golden opportunity to take Crimea, and justify occupying ethic Russian parts of Ukraine.

He can play the "Protecting ethnic russians from the illegitimate anti russian army" card and technically be correct.( Theres a great VICE documentary on how insane the anti russian protestors who ousted Yanukovich are, and similarly how insane the Ethnic Russian(russian backed) Militias in the east are). Really is a Crazy situation, with the average Ukrainian not caring about distinctions like Russian-Ukrainian, and European-ukrainian

Agreed.
I have spent most of my cognitive years studying Nazi Germany- and to draw any parallels between the two beggars belief. Hitler has been analyzed to death by a myriad of very good authors in the last twenty years and he was a product of a VERY select socioeconomic tenor, the likes of which will never (EVER) be seen again. Hitler=Stalin? I will buy into this one- they were contemporaries of each other; each doing their "own" thing in real time, during the period.
Authoritative?
Read Alan Bullock: "Parallel Lives", Richard Overy: "The Dictators", Ian Kershaw: "Hitler" (2 volumes), Richard Evans: Third Reich trilogy (three volumes), Read Adam Tooze: "The Wages of Destruction" which describes the economic picture in Germany during the Nazi ascension to power.. and follows it to the end.
To draw parallels between Hitler, Germany and ANY contemporary figure/nation is seriously stretching the bounds of credibility.
People that toss up such inflammatory statements without doing any homework on the matter should STFU.
Putin won't go any further than he has because he will get squashed like a bug. And he knows it. He is way more informed than Hitler ever was...
You can't compare a despot from the current era of instantaneous communication to one where the teletype was a brand new thing, TV was nascent, and even the telephone was reserved for those that "needed" one...
I grew up with a rotary dial telephone...

Say no more.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Bindair Dundat

Agreed.
I have spent most of my cognitive years studying Nazi Germany- and to draw any parallels between the two beggars belief. Hitler has been analyzed to death by a myriad of very good authors in the last twenty years and he was a product of a VERY select socioeconomic tenor, the likes of which will never (EVER) be seen again. Hitler=Stalin? I will buy into this one- they were contemporaries of each other; each doing their "own" thing in real time, during the period.
Authoritative?
Read Alan Bullock: "Parallel Lives", Richard Overy: "The Dictators", Ian Kershaw: "Hitler" (2 volumes), Richard Evans: Third Reich trilogy (three volumes), Read Adam Tooze: "The Wages of Destruction" which describes the economic picture in Germany during the Nazi ascension to power.. and follows it to the end.
To draw parallels between Hitler, Germany and ANY contemporary figure/nation is seriously stretching the bounds of credibility.
People that toss up such inflammatory statements without doing any homework on the matter should STFU.
Putin won't go any further than he has because he will get squashed like a bug. And he knows it. He is way more informed than Hitler ever was...
You can't compare a despot from the current era of instantaneous communication to one where the teletype was a brand new thing, TV was nascent, and even the telephone was reserved for those that "needed" one...
I grew up with a rotary dial telephone...

Say no more.

There may be instantaneous communication but Putin doesn't understand the new world.

George W. Bush on Putin's domestic centralization of power: "He thinks he'll be around forever. He asked me why I didn't change the Constitution so I could run again."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/tensi...#ixzz3WHWUAr91

ormer President George W. Bush on Thursday said Russian President Vladmir Putin had “changed” and blamed Russia’s oil wealth for encouraging his confrontational attitude against the West.“I think he changed,” said Bush in an interview on CNN’s “The Lead with Jake Tapper,” when asked if he misjudged Putin early on. “Of course, a president should open the door and give people a chance, except for the despicable tyrants.”
Bush early in his first term said that he had looked into Putin’s eyes and found a man he could trust.The former president Thursday said that when he was in office he believed Putin had wanted to work with the West, but after the price of oil went up, his attitude shifted.
“I think it changed his attitude,” he said. “And I think it emboldened him to follow in his game that pretty much zero-sum, you know, I win and you lose and vice versa.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...-putin-changed

[Magnum PEI]

Well they have one thing in common: illegally invading neighbouring countries with the weak excuse of "protecting citizens outside the realm." I dont think the similarities end there.

[blueski]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

Well they have one thing in common: illegally invading neighbouring countries with the weak excuse of "protecting citizens outside the realm." I dont think the similarities end there.

Well I didn't bump the thread because I agree with the OP's title. I do think it is interesting though that both Hitler and Putin benefited and gained power from heinous false flag attacks that they orchestrated. And yeah it's definitely not proven in Putin's case. The article in my mind was pretty convincing though.

Keep in mind, the story on Putin isn't over. His rhetoric about using the nuclear option isn't too reassuring. If he ever played that card it would make Hitler seem like a saint comparatively.

[fulham]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

Well they have one thing in common: illegally invading neighbouring countries with the weak excuse of "protecting citizens outside the realm." I dont think the similarities end there.

Would this not also then apply to the US with the Iraq war? I mean they had to illegally invade and occupy Iraq to protect its citizens from terror.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by fulham

Would this not also then apply to the US with the Iraq war? I mean they had to illegally invade and occupy Iraq to protect its citizens from terror.

Yeah sure, the Iraq war was wrong on so many levels and I guess set a bit of a precedent for Russia but the difference is the US didn't annex Iraq.

[nik-]

Additionally, Whataboutism is a ####ty way to make an argument.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by fulham

Would this not also then apply to the US with the Iraq war? I mean they had to illegally invade and occupy Iraq to protect its citizens from terror.

No. There were no significant numbers of ethnic Americans living in Iraq, or even individuals who aligned politically with the United States. There is no comparison. Obviously.

[fulham]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

No. There were no significant numbers of ethnic Americans living in Iraq, or even individuals who aligned politically with the United States. There is no comparison. Obviously.

But it was justified as a war to protect US citizens across the world, I understand that its not the exact same, but its not far off

[Bindair Dundat]

Originally Posted by nik-

Additionally, Whataboutism is a ####ty way to make an argument.

"Whataboutism" is nothing more than a crutch- for people that choose to enter into a discussion in which they have no actual knowledge of precedents and use of proper sources.
I've seen this movie dozens of times before.
I have reserved comment on many other matters...relevant to this topic.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

There are huge parallels right now to the 30's and Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler. The land grab in Ukraine right now is very similar to Hitler's policy of Lebensraum.

That said, the Isreali's have been operating on their own policies of grabbing more "living space" for decades with little to no interference internationally.

This sets the example that if a strong-man state wants to annex more territory, that they can just go ahead and do it and the West/EU/NATO will do nothing.

Russia/Putin doesn't actually want to govern Ukraine, east Ukraine or any of Ukraine (well, with Crimea removed from the equation anyway). They don't need more living space for Russians. They just expect this country to have a government that is acquiescent to them.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by saillias

Russia/Putin doesn't actually want to govern Ukraine, east Ukraine or any of Ukraine (well, with Crimea removed from the equation anyway). They don't need more living space for Russians. They just expect this country to have a government that is acquiescent to them.

That is some pretty fine hair splitting.

[FlamesAddiction]

As much as I hate Putin, he is nowhere near the level of evil that Hitler was. Saying that he is, is practically Holocaust denial territory.

If there was a scale of terrible world leaders, I would say he is more like a Chavez or Hu Jintao, with a bit a George W. Bush warmongering and Qaddafi narcissism thrown in. Like a melting pot of average ####ty dictators.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by saillias

Russia/Putin doesn't actually want to govern Ukraine, east Ukraine or any of Ukraine (well, with Crimea removed from the equation anyway). They don't need more living space for Russians. They just expect this country to have a government that is acquiescent to them.

I really disagree. The Russians would gladly govern Eastern Ukraine. They'll just make it seem more political/natural now. Russia is just looking at the long term picture. If they full on invaded Eastern Ukraine, the West would be too up in arms. They can just sit back and pick off territories one by one over the decades.

With the rise of the Eurasian Economic Union, we'll pretty much see a more business savvy USSR develop.

[Yoho]