[Rumour] Flames recall Sam Bennett. UPD: Flames still deciding on AHL or NHL

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I'd estimate Treliving has publicly used the words "patience" and "long-term plan" close to 100 times this season. I don't think that is unintentional. He is trying to shape fan expectations that when short-term and long-term goals come into conflict, long-term will win out every time.

This talk of rewarding fans and rewarding Bennet is kinda goofy. The fans have been rewarded with a far better season than 90 per cent of them could have anticipated. And the real rewards for fans are going to come in 3-5 seasons. Patience. Long-term.

And I'm not sure what management is supposed to be rewarding Bennett for. Being highly-skilled? Being an intense player? What has he done that makes him different from what other prospects have done in the season that would catapult him over them into the lineup? I get that he's the most talented prospect in the system. I just don't see what warrants a special 'reward' from management.

For going down to Kingston and, instead of pouting like some players, busting his ass and proving - yet again - that he is a special player that deserves a chance.

It's not a 'special' reward - not a single person used a word anything like that - it is an opportunity that he has earned by doing everything asked of him all year.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Or maybe people HAVE given it consideration and have come to their conclusion.

Based on many of his comments this season, I believe Treliving is determined to take a slow and cautious approach. Which I respect.

However, sometimes you have to recognize the situation and have the balls to make a decision. This is one of those times IMO, and if he wimps out with the safe approach, I think he will have made a mistake here.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I think Sam playing for the Flames seems to be the best decision, especially since he basically hung out with them the whole time he was recovering from his injury. Our secondary scoring sucks. He'd definitely help with that.

But we need to think long term. My thoughts are that Treliving knows Sam has what it takes to make an impact on the team, an impact good enough to burn a whole year of the ELC.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I'd estimate Treliving has publicly used the words "patience" and "long-term plan" close to 100 times this season. I don't think that is unintentional. He is trying to shape fan expectations that when short-term and long-term goals come into conflict, long-term will win out every time.

This talk of rewarding fans and rewarding Bennet is kinda goofy. The fans have been rewarded with a far better season than 90 per cent of them could have anticipated. And the real rewards for fans are going to come in 3-5 seasons. Patience. Long-term.

Yup... not 100% sure, but Treliving is very careful with his words, he pretty much has been giving us the answer all season.

[Heavy Jack]

I am hoping be joins Calgary, I don't think he has much left to prove at lower levels and considering neither Johnny nor Monahan have played a single AHL game to go on top of the fact that the baby Flames are pretty much out of the playoff picture, it makes the most sense to grow Bennett's game up here right now. I think how they should do it is play him in one of the Edmonton/Phoenix games (The Yotes game makes the most sense, its at home, gives him another chance to sit in the pressbox and review the system against the Oilers) and one of the LA/Winnipeg games (I'd choose LA because its more meaningful) If at that point we get in to the playoffs he has the ability to play an entire 7 game series without burning a year on his ELC, if we win the series at that point its worth it to burn the year, if we lose the series Bennett gains great experience that he can bring with him through the offseason and into the next season.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I'm not disagreeing with you, I think Sam playing for the Flames seems to be the best decision, especially since he basically hung out with them the whole time he was recovering from his injury. Our secondary scoring sucks. He'd definitely help with that.

But we need to think long term. My thoughts are that Treliving knows Sam has what it takes to make an impact on the team, an impact good enough to burn a whole year of the ELC.

Again, the only way Bennett burns a year of his ELC is if the Flames make the 2nd round (becaue it is highly unlikely he would play every game, starting tomorrow).

If Treliving would rather save a year of his ELC than make the 2nd round of the playoffs, then he should be fired immediately.

[Enoch Root]

Plus, Bennett playing that many playoff games would be GREAT for the Flames future. This 'worried about the future' argument is pretty silly in this circumstance.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Or maybe people HAVE given it consideration and have come to their conclusion.

Based on many of his comments this season, I believe Treliving is determined to take a slow and cautious approach. Which I respect.

However, sometimes you have to recognize the situation and have the balls to make a decision. This is one of those times IMO, and if he wimps out with the safe approach, I think he will have made a mistake here.

I bet the decision is not Treliving's alone mind you. Also, the Flames brass is making the decision with a lot more information than any of us on here have, either way, so if any side has a drastic reaction to this decision, whatever it might be, it will be un-warranted, and that is what I think has me posting so adimently about it.

Best case scenario and worst case scenario here IMO is that Bennett makes this team mildly better over the next for games, midly worse, or even. I don't think there is any chance that Bennett comes in and fully ####s the bed, but I also don't think there is any chance he comes in and drastically makes us a better team before the playoffs starts. So the Flames should make the "smart" decision, whatever that is.

Many posting on here are giving the sense that they are instantly expecting Bennett to walk in and potentially be our 4th best forward at minimum, based on comments and just "how much" of an upgrade they think he's going to be on some of our Top 9 forwards. I'm hopeful that's going to be the case if he had a full season to play, but over the next 4 games I doubt it, and people seem to be thinking we'd be adding another JG or Monahan to the line up with 4 games left to play. That scenario is the extreme best case scenario, and if the Flames don't call him up we shouldn't be treating it like a missed opportunity to do so, because that outcome occurring in short order is a very low probability.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

For going down to Kingston and, instead of pouting like some players, busting his ass and proving - yet again - that he is a special player that deserves a chance.

It's not a 'special' reward - not a single person used a word anything like that - it is an opportunity that he has earned by doing everything asked of him all year.

All of our players have not pouted and have busted their asses wherever they have been told to play this year. Bennett shouldn't extra rewarded simply because he did what was asked of him this year. I know we've seen a top prospect not do that, but Bennett has not earned rewarding simply for going to Kingston and doing his best, that is simply meeting the standard expectation, and any player that suits up for the Flames will have done the same at minimum.

This is truly a decision based around three things and three things only: 1. What gives the Flames the best chance to make the playoffs, 2. What is best for the Flames rebuild long term, and 3. What is best for Bennett's development.

I'd suggest the first two should have the heaviest weighting given where this team is at right now, versus at the start of the season when Bennett "made it out of training camp" where the situation actually probably was inversely weighted to #3 being the most important, followed by #2 and #1 wasn't even in the fold.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I am hoping be joins Calgary, I don't think he has much left to prove at lower levels and considering neither Johnny nor Monahan have played a single AHL game to go on top of the fact that the baby Flames are pretty much out of the playoff picture, it makes the most sense to grow Bennett's game up here right now. I think how they should do it is play him in one of the Edmonton/Phoenix games (The Yotes game makes the most sense, its at home, gives him another chance to sit in the pressbox and review the system against the Oilers) and one of the LA/Winnipeg games (I'd choose LA because its more meaningful) If at that point we get in to the playoffs he has the ability to play an entire 7 game series without burning a year on his ELC, if we win the series at that point its worth it to burn the year, if we lose the series Bennett gains great experience that he can bring with him through the offseason and into the next season.

2 things

1. Monahan - if you remember what Treliving said, despite Monahan's success, he said he would have sent Monahan back to the OHL last year (his rookie year)

2. If there is even a little (or none at all) left to prove, he would still send them down.... the "you can never over ripen a prospect"

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I think the "no risk" move is getting blown out of proportion right now, and people simply jonesing for another one of our future all stars to join the team (or so are the expectations) is blinding some of the logic. I agree this is far more compelling a case than a Wolf or whoever call up, thus the debate.

But I think there are some serious risks to this potential call up that fans calling this a no brainer aren't taking seriously enough and at least pausing to consider. Thankfully, it appears the Flames are, which ever way they chose to go.

1. For Bennett there is the added risk of showing up in a playoff race, knowing the fans think you are the tits, knowing you just took someone's spot who's been playing hard all year away and then you don't deliver? What doe that do to his confidence? I don't think people are really worried about him being too successful and Svenning it. This risk is bad for his long term development.

2. Risk that he actually takes some time and doesn't play well, makes us worse and we miss. Missed opportunity for other young players to benefit from playoff action, so hurts the long term rebuild of the team. Short term bad for us fans and Flames business.

3. Potentially Bad for team culture and locker room dynamics if we jettison a player that's got us this far for an unproven rookie, especially if we miss. People seem to live playing here now, tough thing to gamble on unless you are sure he's an upgrade because team culture is a huge reason they've come this far.

I get everyone is saying he made it out of camp, and no doubt he did...sort of. Obviously his injury game the Flames a bit of an out on how to handle him, but I don't doubt for a second that he at the very least based on what I saw earned his 9 game cup of coffee From there TBD. But a lot has changed since then, he was injured all year long, and this team turned out to be better than we ever imagined with out him, and now we have 4 games left and sit 1 point up on the playoffs. Have to re-evaluate given all the changes.

Don't get me wrong, I also know that one of the outcomes is he comes in and provides an instant extra threat, or is at the very least on par with the likes of Colborne and Raymond. I just think there is a LOT at risk and to consider with this move, and it's not the "no brainer" with no downside many are suggesting, there are many potential and realistic outcomes with this decision that run the spectrum IMO.

Count me in the camp of you blowing this out of proportion.

In the off chance he doesn't make any kind of impact, I find it hard to believe he makes us worse with the amount of no-shows we've had in the bottom 9 as of late.

Not making an impact is one thing... making us worse through limited play is another, and he could easily be benched if that unlikely scenario were to play out.

As for team culture, there have been forwards in and out of the lineup all year. If someone was upset Bennett slots in there would be a pre-existing problem in that area.

Seems to me like you've now taken the devil's advocate stance and are banging that drum.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

All of our players have not pouted and have busted their asses wherever they have been told to play this year. Bennett shouldn't extra rewarded simply because he did what was asked of him this year. I know we've seen a top prospect not do that, but Bennett has not earned rewarding simply for going to Kingston and doing his best, that is simply meeting the standard expectation, and any player that suits up for the Flames will have done the same at minimum.

This is truly a decision based around three things and three things only: 1. What gives the Flames the best chance to make the playoffs, 2. What is best for the Flames rebuild long term, and 3. What is best for Bennett's development.

I'd suggest the first two should have the heaviest weighting given where this team is at right now, versus at the start of the season when Bennett "made it out of training camp" where the situation actually probably was inversely weighted to #3 being the most important, followed by #2 and #1 wasn't even in the fold.

1) adding Bennett

2) experience

3) experience

is there a chance he bombs? Sure. What's the downside to that? Nothing really - the season is already a bonus.

Sometimes you have to have the fortitude to make a decision.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Again, the only way Bennett burns a year of his ELC is if the Flames make the 2nd round (becaue it is highly unlikely he would play every game, starting tomorrow).

If Treliving would rather save a year of his ELC than make the 2nd round of the playoffs, then he should be fired immediately.

It doesn't hurt to think of the pros and cons for both decisions. I am well aware that it would take Sam to play 2-3 games of regular season action and round 1 to actually get close or meet the 9 game mark.

However, we are a rebuilding team. Don't have making the playoffs fool you.

[Sec218]

Who was the Player of the Month in the OHL? Connor McDavid? No it was Sam Bennett. Enough said in my opinion. He's an elite talent that is ready now.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

It doesn't hurt to think of the pros and cons for both decisions. I am well aware that it would take Sam to play 2-3 games of regular season action and round 1 to actually get close or meet the 9 game mark.

However, we are a rebuilding team. Don't have making the playoffs fool you.

How does that fool anyone? Everyone knows we're a rebuilding team and this year is gravy.

Do you think 2 rounds of playoffs would be detrimental to the rebuild? Yes or no.

[hockey.modern]

Hmm wonder why no updated in a while. Could it possibly be coming close a decision?

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

1) adding Bennett

2) experience

3) experience

is there a chance he bombs? Sure. What's the downside to that? Nothing really - the season is already a bonus.

Sometimes you have to have the fortitude to make a decision.

This seaons is a bonus, for us fans, I highly doubt any of the players in that locker room feel that way. Missing the playoffs will be viewed as a lost opportunity, there are 4 games left and we are in, if they don't close that out they will be seeing that as a lost opportunity for them to get experience, and despite the long shot, they will see it as them losing out on an opportunity at the Cup (something that even getting a chance at is very hard). If part of the reason they lose out on said opportunity is because management or the coaches made a decision to play an unproven player for his development opportunity, that is not going to sit well with everyone who is on this roster right now who likely loves playing for this organization.

It's not nothing and I assure you the players aren't taking this opportunity to be in the playoffs as loosely as you are and feel it's just ketchup on their order of fries. They've busted their asses for this chance, and any decision made that is seen as anything other than improving their chances of getting into the playoffs will not be received well.......even for a rebuilding team.

And that's likely where the concern comes from for the Flames. It's not a decision going to be evaluated by the players until after the fact. Dress Bennett and we get in, he plays well, then everyone loves Bennett and good on Calgary and the coaches for helping us get there. If Bennett comes in doesn't play well and we miss (even if it's not his fault and he was as good as whoever he replaced) it's going to be questioned by the players whether we could have made it by playing one of the guys who played all year, and the org. will get critiqued by them for making a decision for "one" players development over the good of the squad after they busted their asses all year to earn a chance to get in.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

To me the benefit of being around the team and practicing with them is greater than the benefit of lighting up scrubby dub dubs in the A.

The AHL is the second best hockey league in North America. It's head and shoulders above the OHL, and Flames management have made it clear that it's their prefered place to develop players. There's no reason to assume Bennett would waltz into the AHL and light it up. And this notion that just being around NHL players and practicing with them is more valuable to a young player than actually playing professional hockey games is getting ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

For going down to Kingston and, instead of pouting like some players, busting his ass and proving - yet again - that he is a special player that deserves a chance.

It's not a 'special' reward - not a single person used a word anything like that - it is an opportunity that he has earned by doing everything asked of him all year.

I assume all of our prospects have done everything asked of them all year. The only one who pouted is Baertschi, and he's gone now. Sounds like "doing everything asked of him" is what Flames management expect from all prospects. If the Flames want to bring in Bennett because he's the most NHL ready prospect and they feel he will help the NHL team in the short-term without interfering with his long-term development, then fine. But management doesn't owe him anything that they don't owe Poirier, Wotherspoon, Arnold, or Klimchuk.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

This seaons is a bonus, for us fans, I highly doubt any of the players in that locker room feel that way. Missing the playoffs will be viewed as a lost opportunity, there are 4 games left and we are in, if they don't close that out they will be seeing that as a lost opportunity for them to get experience, and despite the long shot, they will see it as them losing out on an opportunity at the Cup (something that even getting a chance at is very hard). If part of the reason they lose out on said opportunity is because management or the coaches made a decision to play an unproven player for his development opportunity, that is not going to sit well with everyone who is on this roster right now who likely loves playing for this organization.

It's not nothing and I assure you the players aren't taking this opportunity to be in the playoffs as loosely as you are and feel it's just ketchup on their order of fries. They've busted their asses for this chance, and any decision made that is seen as anything other than improving their chances of getting into the playoffs will not be received well.......even for a rebuilding team.

And that's likely where the concern comes from for the Flames. It's not a decision going to be evaluated by the players until after the fact. Dress Bennett and we get in, he plays well, then everyone loves Bennett and good on Calgary and the coaches for helping us get there. If Bennett comes in doesn't play well and we miss (even if it's not his fault and he was as good as whoever he replaced) it's going to be questioned by the players whether we could have made it by playing one of the guys who played all year, and the org. will get critiqued by them for making a decision for "one" players development over the good of the squad after they busted their asses all year to earn a chance to get in.

If they give their best and miss out - so be it.

If they miss out because they're gassed and as a result secondary scoring has completely dried up, and yet they left a potential contributor off the team and didn't ice the best team possible - the players would have a reason to be pissed

[Gaudreau]

If he's brought up to NHL:

1) his teammates are not going to be pissed or anything if he shows more in practice and deserves to play a game

2) sheltered minutes against the oilers or coyotes are low risk in my opinion.

3) if there is a potential talent available that can help your team in a playoff push then it would be foolish to not at the very least let him come in and show what he can do in practice.

As others have said, forget burning the ELC if it means we make it past the first round and that Bennett deserved to be played in all those games. I can't fathom how people say they're thinking long term and stuff like that, when a solid playoff run will be more valuable for all our prospects in the long run especially if we can't make the playoffs again until a few years from now. This will give the prospects a taste of the next level, and that's much more valuable then not burning a year off an ELC.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The AHL is the second best hockey league in North America. It's head and shoulders above the OHL, and Flames management have made it clear that it's their prefered place to develop players. There's no reason to assume Bennett would waltz into the AHL and light it up. And this notion that just being around NHL players and practicing with them is more valuable to a young player than actually playing professional hockey games is getting ridiculous.

who said this? No one. Right.

I assume all of our prospects have done everything asked of them all year. The only one who pouted is Baertschi, and he's gone now. Sounds like "doing everything asked of him" is what Flames management expect from all prospects. If the Flames want to bring in Bennett because he's the most NHL ready prospect and they feel he will help the NHL team in the short-term without interfering with his long-term development, then fine. But management doesn't owe him anything that they don't owe Poirier, Wotherspoon, Arnold, or Klimchuk.

And who said this? No one. Right.