Mark "Fricken" Jankowski (aka The Big Jankowski)

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Well, Smith's number are an impressive improvement over last seasons. More Points, More PIM and a very high +/- and less GP. Good for him. Maybe he does turn pro this off season.

He's reaaaallly slowed down of late. I wonder if he's off the top line now?

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

He's reaaaallly slowed down of late. I wonder if he's off the top line now?

well they traded for McCarron and Mistele during the season, so that's two extra guys with top 6 minutes. With Dal Colle, Cassels, Lindberg, McCarron, Mistele, Latour and Smith, that's a lot of guys. No idea how much Smith is playing right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's less than earlier in the season. Just an extremely stacked team up front.

IIRC Smith's biggest weakness was his skating though, right? So no idea how that has gone for him this year.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by devo22

I think Gillies is a lock to turn pro. Hiller and Ortio are the only two goaltenders signed for next season, and given that Ortio was solid in his NHL stint and will be on a one-way and subject to waivers next season, Gillies can have the starter's job in Stockton. I'd be very surprised if he didn't sign with the Flames this year.

With Gilmour and Jankowski, it's a more interesting case.

NHL defensemen under contract (6): Brodie, Giordano, Russell, Wideman, Smid, Engelland
AHL defensemen under contract (5): Wotherspoon, Culkin, Sieloff, Kulak, Kanzig
UFA defensemen (3): Potter, Schlemko, Diaz
RFA defensemen (3): Cundari, Acolatse, Ramage

I also firmly believe that Wotherspoon will be in the NHL next season, so that leaves 4 young contracted defensemen on the farm plus whatever AHL defenseman the Flames will re-sign. I doubt that they will sign Eric Roy, but let's not forget Rushan Rafikov who's a wildcard to come over to NA. Is there really a spot for Gilmour? Not sure.

NHL forwards under contract (8): Monahan, Gaudreau, Hudler, Jones, Stajan, Colborne, Bollig, Bennett, Raymond
AHL forwards under contract (4): Poirier, Klimchuk, Granlund, van Brabant
UFA forwards (2): Setoguchi, McGrattan
RFA forwards (12): Backlund, Bouma, Jooris, Shore, Ferland, Wolf, Arnold, Byron, Reinhart, Agostino, Hanowski, Elson

Again, the big question is which RFAs they keep around. Will there still be a spot for Byron next season? Do they keep Reinhart? Have they seen enough of Agostino and Hanowski? Do they like Wolf and Elson enough to keep them around? Those are the questions that will determine whether Janko goes pro or not. Frankly, I'm fine either way. Another college season surely wouldn't hurt, but if the Flames think he's ready for pro and better off in Stockton under their own "control" than in Providence, then that's obviously great too.

EDIT: also, Austin Carroll will surely be signed and be in the AHL next season. Not sure about Hunter Smith, but I think one more OHL season would be good for his development.

I added our little gem you forgot

[ricardodw]

I saw a blurb where the Jets have just signed Andrew Copp out of University of Michigan. They drafted him in the 4th round 2013.

He is a 6-2 210 centre who was captain of his team played in this years WJC 5 games 5 assists.

He is 3 months younger than Jankowski. He started playing NCAA the same year as Jankowski at the same age. they both are juniors and have another year left.

The Jets gave him the "Gaudreau treatment" 3 year ELC @ 950 k/yr with him reporting directly to the Jets to burn off his first year.

The only difference status-wise is that if he played his senior yr and became a UFA the Jets get nothing for a 4th round pick. If Jankowski plays his 4th year and becomes a UFA either by choice or the Flames not signing him the Flames get the #52 pick in the 2017 draft.

How does he measure up with Jankowski?

Both big Centres, same age. Copp scoring just under a PPG the last 2 years.

Would the Flames give up the 2017 #52 pick for Copp? will they give it up to sign Jankowski?

[devo22]

well good for Winnipeg and good for Copp. I have him in the CPHL, so I've followed his progress ... he's a good prospect. However I don't get what you're trying to sell here and what it does have to do with Jankowski. "Copp has progressed quicker/better than Jankowski because he's scored more points?" - is that your argument here? Because statlines can be deceiving.

you get caught in the PPG trap when you try to compare Copp and Jankowski by only looking at their numbers. Copp played for the University of Michigan, and their team scores a lot more goals than Providence does. Just look at their roster - Dylan Larkin, Zach Hyman, Boo Nieves, Zach Werenski, JT Compher, Tyler Motte. All very good prospects ... it's simply a very deep team. So OF COURSE Copp got more points. He simply has more quality players to work with than Jankowski.

Jankowski might have scored less points, but he's been involved in more goals percentage-wise than Copp. This year, Michigan scored 143 goals and Providence scored 104 so far, according to hockeyDB. Copp had 31 points this year, meaning he was involved in .217% of all Michigan goals. Jankowski has 23 points this year, meaning he's been involved in .221% of all Providence goals.

[sureLoss]

If you want a comparable to Jankowski, perhaps the best match is Riley Sheahan.

Sheahan was an excellent defensive center that didn't put up great offensive numbers just like Jankowski.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

If you want a comparable to Jankowski, perhaps the best match is Riley Sheahan.

Sheahan was an excellent defensive center that didn't put up great offensive numbers just like Jankowski.

That's the comparision I see too...Both were also 21st overalls.

But I will say that Jankowski has had a college season scoring .33 goals per game and a different season putting up .52 assists per game. Sheahan's best college offensive numbers were .24 goals per game and .43 assists per game, though those were both the same season.

I said this before I think in this thread, but if Jankowski were just scoring goals at the pace he's already proven he can score at a year ago, he'd be at 11 goals right now instead of 6. if he were at 11/17 over 33 games would there be a concern?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by devo22

well good for Winnipeg and good for Copp. I have him in the CPHL, so I've followed his progress ... he's a good prospect. However I don't get what you're trying to sell here and what it does have to do with Jankowski. "Copp has progressed quicker/better than Jankowski because he's scored more points?" - is that your argument here? Because statlines can be deceiving.

you get caught in the PPG trap when you try to compare Copp and Jankowski by only looking at their numbers. Copp played for the University of Michigan, and their team scores a lot more goals than Providence does. Just look at their roster - Dylan Larkin, Zach Hyman, Boo Nieves, Zach Werenski, JT Compher, Tyler Motte. All very good prospects ... it's simply a very deep team. So OF COURSE Copp got more points. He simply has more quality players to work with than Jankowski.

Jankowski might have scored less points, but he's been involved in more goals percentage-wise than Copp. This year, Michigan scored 143 goals and Providence scored 104 so far, according to hockeyDB. Copp had 31 points this year, meaning he was involved in .217% of all Michigan goals. Jankowski has 23 points this year, meaning he's been involved in .221% of all Providence goals.

Both were "projects" , Copps was a 4th round pick after a similar Freshman season as Jankowski. The Jets figure Copp is ready to be a pro. Will the Flames turn Jankowsi into a pro.

They are the same age. They played at the same level.

Are stats lines deceiving?

Is Jankowski ready to go pro? Are the Flames wanting him to sign now? when will Jankowski be ready? Will he be a better prospect than the 2017 #51 draft pick the Flames have waiting if they don't sign him?

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Both were "projects" , Copps was a 4th round pick after a similar Freshman season as Jankowski. The Jets figure Copp is ready to be a pro. Will the Flames turn Jankowsi into a pro.

They are the same age. They played at the same level.

Are stats lines deceiving?

They are the same age, playing the same level, and apparently have the same playing styles and talent, but... how are the stat lines not deceiving?

When you look at the teams, Michigan both scored and allowed one more goal per game than Providence. Copp is middle-aged player on one of the highest scoring NCAA teams this season, whereas Jankowski is the second youngest player on a low scoring team

Not to mention Michigan's depth:

Six drafted forwards, including Copp, a first rounder and two second rounders
Three drafted dmen, not including potential 2015 top 10 pick, Zach Werenski
One drafted goalie

Compared to Providence's depth:

Two drafted forwards, including Jankowski
Four drafted dmen, including one third rounder
One drafted goalie

If you were to put Jankowski on a young, offensive team with talented linemates, it's not a reach to say that he'd have the same near ppg numbers that Copp has.

Y'all just need some patience (and context)

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by boogerz

They are the same age, playing the same level, and apparently have the same playing styles and talent, but... how are the stat lines not deceiving?

When you look at the teams, Michigan both scored and allowed one more goal per game than Providence. Copp is middle-aged player on one of the highest scoring NCAA teams this season, whereas Jankowski is the second youngest player on a low scoring team

Not to mention Michigan's depth:

Six drafted forwards, including Copp, a first rounder and two second rounders
Three drafted dmen, not including potential 2015 top 10 pick, Zach Werenski
One drafted goalie

Compared to Providence's depth:

Two drafted forwards, including Jankowski
Four drafted dmen, including one third rounder
One drafted goalie

If you were to put Jankowski on a young, offensive team with talented linemates, it's not a reach to say that he'd have the same near ppg numbers that Copp has.

Y'all just need some patience (and context)

You are saying that Jankowski is at the same level as Copp? That is just non-controllable circumstances that is keeping him from having a solid stats line?

Should he play his senior year? What is the benefit of it? or should he turn pro and get into a better development environment in the AHL.

If the Flames see him as a NHL player in 2016-17 then it would seem now would be the time for him to go pro.

Riley Sheehan went pro with Detroit/grand Rapids at the end of his junior season as a 20 year old.... a few months younger than Jankowski is now.

As far as the relative lack of NHL material on Providence ... wouldn't that give Jankowski an opportunity to be a major star?

[devo22]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

You are saying that Jankowski is at the same level as Copp? That is just non-controllable circumstances that is keeping him from having a solid stats line?

Should he play his senior year? What is the benefit of it? or should he turn pro and get into a better development environment in the AHL.

If the Flames see him as a NHL player in 2016-17 then it would seem now would be the time for him to go pro.

nobody here knows what the plan is. For all we know, the Flames could sign him alongside Gillies when their season is done and then your whole Copp "argument" is redundant anyway. We'll see.

And again, you are completely ignoring the circumstances when you compare Copp and Jankowski. 31 points for Michigan and 23 points for Providence is more than comparable in terms of production when you consider that Michigan is a high-scoring team and Providence is a low-scoring team.

[UKflames]

I would think that the Flames would prefer him to play on a low scoring team that is teaching the defensive side of the game. How many times do we hear that prospects are good but they need to learn to play in both ends of the ice.
I think we have started to get a little bit blinded by prospects that come into the organisation and dazzle straight away, like Gaudreau or even Bennett, and have started to expect every prospect to do the same. If they don't we seem to get down on them real quick.

[Red Menace]

I feel a sort of catch-22 scenario about Jankowski could happen:
Either he doesn't progress as expected in his senior season and we don't bother to sign him, or he has a really great senior season and then decides it in his best interest to test out the UFA market?
Perhaps I am being paranoid...but I don't know why anyone who completed their senior season wouldn't do this, it's certainly in their best interest to do so.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

I feel a sort of catch-22 scenario about Jankowski could happen:
Either he doesn't progress as expected in his senior season and we don't bother to sign him, or he has a really great senior season and then decides it in his best interest to test out the UFA market?
Perhaps I am being paranoid...but I don't know why anyone who completed their senior season wouldn't do this, it's certainly in their best interest to do so.

Not really. Its the familiarity you already have with the organization. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. You have to go and build new relationships etc. New coaches, new fitness regime etc etc. Think of as it in real life, starting a job in a new place.

There are only 30 teams in the league, if the money is the same and you have to go and prove yourself to a new team why not just stick with what you know? Especially a team that's already spent 4 years on your development. There are no guarantees, but a team that's invested in you for 4 years would likely give you more time and chances then a new team where you have to start from scratch.

[Dienasty]

So back to Jankowski's performance. He had 1a and was a +4 in two games this weekend over the number one seeded Miami (Ohio) and Denver.

The team is now in the frozen four, with a match up against Omaha.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Not really. Its the familiarity you already have with the organization. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. You have to go and build new relationships etc. New coaches, new fitness regime etc etc. Think of as it in real life, starting a job in a new place.

There are only 30 teams in the league, if the money is the same and you have to go and prove yourself to a new team why not just stick with what you know? Especially a team that's already spent 4 years on your development. There are no guarantees, but a team that's invested in you for 4 years would likely give you more time and chances then a new team where you have to start from scratch.

It is incredibly hard to overcome the travel wear and tear on a player in the Western conference as compared to the East.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

It is incredibly hard to overcome the travel wear and tear on a player in the Western conference as compared to the East.

What does that have anything to do with this? If true then all players would be fleeing over to the East the first chance they get. There are select players who have said a thing or two about it.

14 of the 30 teams do it. Plenty of players still sign in the west. Plenty of them extend their contracts. To play and make millions I'm sure players would gladly put up with it.

[Red Menace]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

What does that have anything to do with this? If true then all players would be fleeing over to the East the first chance they get. There are select players who have said a thing or two about it.

14 of the 30 teams do it. Plenty of players still sign in the west. Plenty of them extend their contracts. To play and make millions I'm sure players would gladly put up with it.

The difference is that most young players don't have a choice; they just go where they are told/drafted...but if they have the power to choose between 30 teams, the chances of them picking the Flames are by definition greatly reduced.

[devo22]

lots of players sign with the team that drafted them after completing 4 years of college ... the majority of the players do, it's just a small percentage of guys who choose a different direction. This year, there's probably one guy who will guy that route (Zach Hyman), plus Mike Reilly (who didn't go to college for 4 years, but can use the Schultz loophole because he played in the BCHL for a year after being drafted). Over the past few years, there's also not a lot of cases - Kevin Hayes of course, but other than that, I can't think of anybody off the top of my head. Corban Knight would have done it, but obviously he was traded and signed before he could become UFA.

[FBI]

The Kevin Hayes play seems to have turned out well for him..